[00:00:03] Speaker A: The following program is brought to you.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: In living color on dailyGazette.com or wherever you get your podcast.
The Daily Gazette Company presents the parting Shots podcast. Now here's your host, Daily Gazette sports editor Ken Shot. Thank you, Scott. Welcome to the parting Shots podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe today. Thanks for joining me from the parting Shots podcast studio in Schenectady, New York, we have a big show for you. Will Brown, the College of St. Rose women's basketball coach, will join us in a little bit, and it's going to be interesting to talk about him in our opening segment. Also, we'll preview the ECAC hockey tournament with Dan Rubin of UScho.com. And Pierre McGuire is going to join us. He'll also help us preview the tournament. He'll be the analyst on the ESPN plus broadcast. But we talked a little bit about the NHL as well.
Well, on Wednesday, the news came out from Sienna that Carmen Masarello was no longer the head basketball coach of the Saints after a four and 28 record. And it was a really rough season for the team.
Adam Schinder wrote the story early and Mike McGadden was at the press conference. And both of our writers are there, are here now in the party shots podcast studio to talk about that. Gentlemen, I guess it's not a shock, but one bad season and that's it. Yeah.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: If you were to tell anyone with what ended up being six games left in Sienna's 20, 22, 23 season that a year later Carmasarolo will be fired, I think they'd be surprised. But they lost the last six games of that season really kind of spiraled at the end as injuries started to take their toll and they just couldn't find a way to win close games. And then this year just the wheels fell off. They went on opening night and there's not a lot that you could say went well after that.
[00:01:59] Speaker D: Yeah, and I talked to athletic director John Dargenio, I think it was in late January, and specifically asked know was Karm's job on the line? And at the time he said no and kind of leaned on the old argument of, well, his body of work needs to be taken into consideration. He had four winning seasons in the first four years as a head coach at Sienna, won a couple of regular season championships. They had a good team that didn't get to really see what they could do because the Mac tournament was canceled after the quarterfinals that first season that Carme was head coach, but unfortunately for Carmen Masarello, Sienna didn't do anything from that moment in late January until the end of the season to really indicate that this season wouldn't be kind of the overriding factor in determining his ultimate fate.
They lost that night and they just kept losing and losing, and a lot of times didn't look good doing it. Although their final game, they played pretty well and you sort of saw glimmers of what they were supposed to be all season, but too little, too late for Carm.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: This team played at the end of the year. This team was playing hard. They were in a lot more games than they were early in the season. But by the end of the year, this was a team that was starting two walk ons in the backcourt. They lost a lot of guys to injury. They've already seen a huge departure now to the transfer portal, both on Monday before his firing was announced, and now since his morning firing was announced since the morning of.
A good half of the program is in the portal by now.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Well, to see how bad the season was for the Saints, Masarello's overall record coming into the season was 20 games over 500. He's now four big games below 500.
[00:03:52] Speaker D: He went from 20 games over with nearly 60 win percentage to under 50%, which is tough to do in one season of five.
That's like having a 250 batting average and going over 20 in your next couple of games and threatening the Mendoza line.
I will note. I actually covered their season opener at home against Holy Cross and they won that game in a tough, close game. And you can go all the way back to the last closing seconds of that game when Michael Ely went up for a three pointer that ultimately was, I think it was after the buzzer, but when he came down, he landed on a Holy cross player's foot, rolled his ankle, was out for a few games and just was never right for the whole rest of the season. And that kind of like was an omen, I think, the rest of the way.
During a season in which car Masarello started 19 different starting lineups, which was like, I think when that stat came out a week or so ago, was like number three out of over 350 Division one programs for most starting lineups. And that's a reflection of the juggling Adam mentioned, the two walk on starting more than a couple games. I think that's a reflection of the juggling act he had to do with his personnel all season.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd say they maybe had, what, two, three games all year where he even had what would be considered his first choice starting five available and probably.
[00:05:23] Speaker D: One of them being the Niagara game that they won when Duragorden had his coming out party and scored 36 points. And Ely had a good game, too. I think he had like 18 and Duragorden had 16 rebounds from the guard position in that game. And all of a sudden you were like, okay, Duragorden finally got through the NCAA waiver and boy, I guess this is what they were waiting for this whole time. And now let's see what happens. And, well, he got hurt, too, and didn't make it to the end of the season. I think he was in there for a little. They tried him a little bit. He was on the bench in that last game, but there was a lot of what could have been, but ultimately four and 28 what could have been. Pretty hollow speculation.
[00:06:06] Speaker C: Yeah, it's hard to sugarcoat what was by pretty much any number except for Mac record. They have had worse Mac records on a couple of occasions, I think during a smaller Mac where they maybe won one game.
[00:06:18] Speaker D: So you're the one who's the Ranger.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: But was by pretty much any metric and any advanced metric, the worst season that this program has ever had.
[00:06:27] Speaker D: Yeah, and by a long shot, too, because, and we've been around, whatever, eight and 24 seasons, which you thought, boy, it couldn't possibly get worse than this.
[00:06:36] Speaker C: It's double, double the wing again.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Does Carm get all the blame for this?
[00:06:44] Speaker C: It's hard to get. You can't throw all the blame. It is a difficult environment for any college coach right now, especially at the mid major level. You remember, the sheer amount of talent that they've lost in the era of the transfer portal is pretty staggering. Jalen Pickett is an NBA player at this point on the world champion Denver Nuggets. Javian McCollum was one of the better guards in the big twelve this year at Oklahoma. Jared Billips, who was as good a defensive player as there was in the Mac, went to George Mason, and then obviously he has to shoulder some of the blame. You're the head coach. You went four and 28. The buck stops here.
In a situation like that, if the sword is going to fall on someone, it probably falls on his head and certainly did today. But it's also not easy to say, yes, he gets all of the blame. When you go four and 28, a lot of factors factor in.
[00:07:43] Speaker D: And I go back to the conversation with Dargenio in January where he said, yes, we need to reevaluate how we recruit. And that doesn't mean know Sienna is suddenly going to abandon all their academic standards or anything like that, but they need to explore new ways to find players and good players and maybe get a little more creative and that's more of an athletic department thing and maybe a little bit of blame, or at least he needs to provide some better or different guidance to the next head coach on how to approach that. But the bulk of the blame, naturally, is going to be on Carm.
These are the players that he recruited, but he doesn't get 100% of it.
[00:08:23] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: In fact, you could see it a little bit tracking their recruiting.
Throughout this season, there were more junior college players saying that they had offers, which is a complete departure for this program outside of one or two guys like a Jordan Kellyer. But Jordan Kellyer was a Division one player who had then moved back to play at junior college after some changes.
They are not a team that traditionally offers Juco. Going back for a long time, I.
[00:08:52] Speaker D: Can'T remember who would have been. I mean, I can't think of an example. I was the beat writer for six years when Fran McCaffrey and then Mitch Bonagirl was the head coach. And I can't think of a mean. Fran didn't need to go that can't. I honestly can't. If there was one, I don't know who it.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: It's. It's also largely he'd given a lot of chances as a. Guys are going to come here as walk ons for a year and play themselves into a scholarship. Brendan Coyle, the Niski uni native was like that was a walk on as a freshman. Basically essentially didn't play. Played himself into what was actually pretty good by the time he kind of broke into the lineup in the back half of the season. Might have been the second best player on the team in the last three or four games.
[00:09:34] Speaker D: Knock down, three point shooter, didn't shoot a lot of them.
[00:09:37] Speaker C: But it is a very difficult thing to rely in this environment on kids coming straight out of high school.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: Sienna season ended last Tuesday in the Mac tournament to Niagara. Why did they wait eight days to make this?
[00:09:51] Speaker D: That question came up today, and there were several.
Know I'm not going to rip Sienna for the timing of it. I think the timing of it was actually pretty good. But John Dargenio mentioned today they still had a women's team alive in the Mac tournament and with pretty high expectations. So they had to kind of clear that and then just wait for the overall Mac tournament to just be over.
Know they could have done it on, but. Or any of you know that I'm not going to really nitpick them too much for the timing of it. I will say that school president Chuck Seafort was pretty influential in this decision making process, so they had to sit down and have their exit interviews and things like that and their normal postseason stuff, evaluate what's going on.
[00:10:46] Speaker C: I believe through some he was on vacation last week.
[00:10:52] Speaker A: Welcome back.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Okay, let's start the speculation. As I mentioned, Will Brown is going to be a guest after the segment interview I taped on Monday. Obviously with circumstances now with this situation, former U Albany men's basketball coach did a great job in his one season with St. Rose women's basketball.
Do you think?
Obviously there's some, maybe some of these Sienna basketball fans don't like will Brown because he's at U Albany and he know said that the Albany cup should be played at U Albany from time to time. So is will brown a legitimate candidate for this job?
[00:11:32] Speaker C: I think he's a legitimate candidate. He's someone that you have to do your due diligence on. He's here. He most likely would come at a cheaper rate than certain other coaches, especially experienced head coaches, because of the local connection, because he's a guy who has 20 years of division one college coaching experience and is looking to get back into the game. There's also a very obvious connection that Laurie ankle, who was the ad who hired him at St. Rose, just went back to Sienna in the last couple of weeks. With St. Rose's impending closure. He's a guy with five NCAA tournaments to his resume.
You would think he would be on the list.
I'm not certain that he is the top name on the list.
[00:12:15] Speaker D: He's logical for everything that Adam just said.
I think he's illogical. If you take into consideration what sort of response the Sienna fan base would produce if they hired will, I don't think they like him very much, to put it succinctly. And the fan base shouldn't be the overriding and should never and isn't the determining factor. But I think it is something to take into consideration, especially because there's a lot of angry people out there after this season and you better get this next one right. If there's any glimmer that the general public and the Sienna boosters and fan base and everything are going to be dissatisfied with this, I think you have to take that into consideration and I don't think know Sienna fans are necessarily a fan of will Brown. At least the majority of you mean.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Let's face John Darjena has been ad there a long time. This could be his last hire. He has to get it right, and.
[00:13:19] Speaker D: He hasn't really gotten any higher. And I'm going to kind of touch on this, and he answered this question at the press conference today. His last four hires. I think it is left under kind of lousy circumstances, either by Sienna's choice or the coach's own choice. Jamie on Christian obviously was very promising, but left after one season, opening the door for Carm to get promoted.
But they absolutely have to get this one right.
That's four straight misses. As far as someone sustaining some, you can say Carm had four good seasons and everything, so that kind of made sense. But whatever was going on during those four years didn't sustain itself. And not only that plummeted to just a disastrous, embarrassing level.
[00:14:08] Speaker C: The pattern in coaching hires, with the exception of Carm in recent years, has been someone with head coaching experience. So does that mean they go for that? Does that mean that he tries to go back to that, having given Carm the job when he had as his first head coaching job, try to go back to that tried and true philosophy, or does he try and maybe go younger? There's some names that, looking at some various college basketball insider speculation have kind of come out. The most prominent name that people would probably know would be someone who interviewed for the job six years ago. Jerry McNamara, Syracuse assistant, did not get the Syracuse job last year when Adrian Autry was promoted after Jim Beheim retired is a name you've heard a number of times.
Lots of experience as an assistant. Probably around time for him to be a head coach. He's about 40 now.
Money would be interesting because he's probably making around as much now as what Carm was making at Sienna, which is around $400,000.
[00:15:13] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the sexy name that's out there and would certainly check a lot of boxes. No head coaching experience. Boy, I think you can kind of forget about throw that one out the window if that's a priority in your next hire, if he's the guy that, the non head coaching experience guy that you hire. Because, man, there's a ton of appeal there.
Sienna, for him, would be appealing as a program with a lot of history and tradition, tradition of success, tradition of good coaches going on to bigger things, which would be right in his wheelhouse for motivation. So I think there's a two way thing going on there. As far as appeal, there's a lot ton of appeal for Sienna and for Jerry McNamar. If he's looking for a head coaching job. I don't know how many of them are out there that he would kind of be on the radar that are that much better than Sienna.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: The most interesting thing is that there's two kind of broadly similar Mac jobs open at the same night. With Kinesius also being open. Albany has the advantage of, obviously its arena is probably Sienna being in Albany at MVP arena has the biggest advantage in the Mac of a built in fan base. There's a few other names I've seen tossed around in kind of these circles. Most experienced head coach by Pat Duquette, currently at UMass Lowell, who's had a good amount of success the last couple of years, been one of the better programs in the America East. Steve Curran, who's a current George Mason, former St. Bonaventure assistant Matt Brady, who's on the staff at Maryland, has been a head coach at James Madison and a few other places.
[00:16:51] Speaker D: He's got Sienna roots.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: So there's a handful of names, and then what you wonder is if people are going to try and think of the pie in the sky names of guys looking for a redemption tour and if they're looking for money or looking back, the names like a Greg Marshall or a Bob Huggins, which is beyond speculation. Those are not names I would recommend. Those are names that a very eager fan base would be saying. We missed out on Rick Patino a few years ago.
[00:17:24] Speaker D: Eager fan base pretty much summarizes Sienna's MO at this point after this season.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:29] Speaker C: And you can know that based on a few of Carm's comments in postgames this year.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:34] Speaker D: And I think Sienna in the next hire has to be a little careful of not getting into the retread mode. They need to be creative and have some imagination, but the bedrock of recruiting and somebody who's really sharp in the portal and the player procurement segment, I think that's like a huge factor for the next one.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: And someone who is going to know how to work closely with an nil.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Well, it'll be a lot of fun to watch next few weeks, see what happens. And who will be the next coach of the Sienna Saints?
[00:18:10] Speaker D: Gary McNamara. I would love it, but I'm not a Sienna fan. I don't get a boat.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: Mike and Adam, thank you for joining me and we'll look forward to once we have the new coach there at Sienna. We'll talk about that then. All right. That's Adam Schindler and Mike McGadam. Coming up, Will Brown, the head coach of the St. Rose women's basketball team will join me to talk about his season. You're listening to the parting shots podcast.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: Are played by humans, coached by humans, and officiated by humans. So the next time you're sitting in the stands at a school athletic event, please remember this and maintain your humanity, especially when it comes to judging and critiquing athletes, coaches and officials. Please show your fellow humans some respect. They'll appreciate your empathy.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: This message presented by NISFA and the New York State Athletic Administrators association.
[00:19:20] Speaker E: Hi, this is Colgate men's hockey coach Mike Harder. You're listening to the parting shots podcast.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: With Daily Gazette sports editor Kenshaw.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: Welcome back to the podcast. My next guest guided the College of St. Rose women's basketball team to a 21 seven record and a birth in the NCAA Division two tournament. Unfortunately, it's the final season of women's basketball at St. Rose as the college is closing in the spring. Joining me is a head coach of the Golden Knights, Will Brown. Will welcome back to the podcast. And how are you doing?
[00:19:52] Speaker E: Well, thanks for having me and I'm doing great. How about yourself?
[00:19:55] Speaker B: I'm doing okay. Can't complain. My college hockey season is over with union being eliminated over the weekend. But I got a lot of other responsibilities going on, so it's a busy time. Busy time, especially with the NCA tournament going on. What did you think of the brackets?
[00:20:11] Speaker E: Yeah, this is a great time of year. Sat and watched a selection show and intrigued by the matchups. I think the only thing that I took from that is I don't understand how the Big East Conference is ranked. I believe either the second or third best conference in the country and they only get three teams. I think that one confused me a little bit because I do know that there is not a team in the field that would want to play Rick Patino and St. John's early in the tournament or Shaheen Holloway and Seton hall in the tournament. So other than know, can't wait for the games to start and actually really excited for the women's regionals at the MVP arena, you look at the quality of teams that potentially could be know. You have South Carolina, the defending national champions, LSU and what everybody was waiting.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Clark oh yeah, that's amazing. I think if tickets hadn't been sold out by now, I think as we speak, they're probably gone. Knowing that there's a possibility. Caitlin Clark, what has she done for the women's game? How much has she really brought attention? I mean, the women's game has been grown. It's getting a lot more attention. But it seems like with Caitlin Clark now, it's really going to the next.
[00:21:33] Speaker E: You know, I think what she's done to the woman's college game is kind of what Steph Curry did for the know. She's known for her logo threes. I think a lot of it is how she carries herself, how unselfish she is. She's not from what you would think is a blue blood college basketball program on the woman's know. She's coming from Iowa. So I think it's really know. Everybody talks about her scoring and she's must watch TV. I mean, I watch every time Iowa, the Iowa women play, I tune in. It's how much she makes her teammates better is what impresses me. And as good of a shooter and a scorer as she is, I think she's an even better passer.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah, well, let's talk about your team, St. Rose. I mean, you took over and then I think it was the day before you guys started practicing. The announcement comes down that the school is closing at the end of this academic year. What was the mood like there with the team, with yourself as you were getting ready to start the season?
[00:22:49] Speaker E: Yeah, it was crazy. I didn't take the job basically until July 1 and school year starts and we get going and we actually played a handful of games. And I'll never forget it was a day or two prior to our conference game at Southern Connecticut and the news broke and our team obviously was devastated. And here I am thinking these young kids, their world was just turned upside down and in less than 48 hours we have to play a game. And I'll never forget telling my assistant, Carly Boland, going into that Southern Connecticut game, I said, this could get real ugly real quick. I said, we need to be ready to use all of our timeouts to keep their spirits know, to try to convince them that, hey, we're going to be all right. Let's just compete. And I have to be honest with you, our kids went out and they played unbelievable basketball. I think we got up 30 in that game and you would have thought that there was nothing else going on in their world but that game, that day with how motivated they were to play.
Because let's face it, these kids, they weren't expecting this. This is the last thing they were expecting. They chose St. Rose to get their degree to play college basketball and hopefully try to do something special. And their world was rocked. And I couldn't have been prouder. After the game, I talked to them about how well they handled the adversity.
But prior to the game, too, it was all about, hey, tough people deal with tough times. Let's control this narrative. So you think a lot of coach talk and you never know how it's going to go. It went as well.
We couldn't have imagined how well it would go. And then from that point on, our team has used it as motivation. They were determined to write their story, to control that narrative, to try and do something special, to get people to stop talking about the school closing and about how well this woman's basketball program is doing. And when you fast forward, mission accomplished.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you won that game 58 30 at Southern Connecticut State. The next game against St. Michael is a 59 31 win. You blow out Caldwell on December eigth, 84 45. And then Roberts Wesleyan is an 82 34 victory. So it seems like the distraction, all that was not distractive at all, distracting at all to the team.
[00:25:46] Speaker E: I think it's a group that came together, a group that learned to really appreciate themselves in a short period of time. They stuck together. They were there for each other. They continued to embrace what their head coach was preaching and teaching and really just kept charging forward.
And really, they didn't waver all season long from who we were as a team, what we needed to do to be successful. And again, when you get beat in the NCAA tournament like we did, you feel so bad because as soon as that game ends, you walk back to the locker room and you see the players crying. You see how much it meant to them. And also, I think a little bit of reality just hit them in the face that it's over now. Now we have to figure out what really is next. And I think that's when it really became scary for our players, is when they got back to the locker room after the loss to Damon in the NCAA tournament and it was, wow, this is really over.
Obviously they had bigger plans for us. I think our players really thought we were going to win the east region, and as I told them, I thought we were good enough to do so. But this time of year, you have to play well, you have to stay healthy, you have to have some luck on your side. And it really has to be one game at a time because everyone's really good this time of year. So now, like I said, we're back to reality. And what do we do today? On Monday, I meet with eight of our players, individual one on one meetings to talk about their future. I've got seven more coming in tomorrow, and it's all about finding them places to go to school for next year.
[00:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
The postgate video that was sent out a couple of hours after the game, you were even emotional in that one. Have you ever gotten emotional at a press conference like that?
[00:28:05] Speaker E: You know what?
I'm a pretty private guy. I think my wife put something out on social media.
I can count on one hand how many times I've seen him cry, and that's not something that I'm proud of. That's just how I'm wired and I don't like to show my emotion for whatever reason. And that's why there's a lot of people out there that don't know me that well because I'm a pretty guarded individual. And it just really hit me because I wanted more for this team. I wanted to continue to coach this team and that was it. It just really hit me all at once. And I'm surprised that it happened to me and I'm also glad that it happened to me because it reinforced how important that these kids are to me and how much they meant to me throughout the season. And obviously now, yeah, this team was.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Not expected to do much, I think, at the start of the season. Northeast ten, I think, picked near the bottom of the state in the preseason.
[00:29:14] Speaker E: Out of twelve, 11th out of twelve.
High hopes for us.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: What motivated this team? How did you get this team to play like a team that was challenging for the Northeast ten regular season title?
[00:29:28] Speaker E: Well, when I took the job and July 1, basically I'm calling all these players and I'm talking to them individually and then I get them on a Zoom call and I told them, I said, hey, we're not going to meet each other face to face until the end of August. I said, but what I'm going to ask you to do, I'm going to ask you to trust me and to embrace everything that we do moving forward. I said to the senior class, I'm your third coach. I said, you have not won. You have not experienced winning. You have not enjoyed success. I promise you, if you trust me and you embrace everything I ask you to do, you will go out winners. I'm not going to guarantee you how many games you're going to win, but I'm going to tell you, you are going to experience winning and we're going to have a winning season this year. So they literally, from the time that I met them at the end of August, they literally embraced everything I asked them to do. And I told them, I said, hey, I'm very transparent this is going to be our formula for success.
We're going to play with great toughness, we're going to be prepared, we're going to execute, we're going to have fun and we're going to do this with defense and rebounding.
Because again, I knew what was returning. I knew what I was able to add. Late in the summertime, I looked over the analytics from a year ago. I studied the league and I said, hey, I said, we're going to find a way to get enough stops and enough rebounds and enough points to be really successful.
And this is how we're going to do it. We're not going to waver from what we do. We're going to do what we do and more often than not, it's going to be good enough. And again, I sold them on the fact, too, that defense and rebounding travels and travels well. We want to take great pride in not losing a game on our home floor and then we have to go out on the road and steal some games. I also talked to them about the history and tradition of the program, even though it was a long time ago. But if the program hadn't had a winning season in ten plus seasons and hadn't been to the NCAA tournament in 14 years, and it was all about using one word every day over and over and over. And it's real simple. The word was win. Every time we broke a huddle it was one, two, three win. Every time we talked it was about winning, winning, winning.
We didn't care about what happened in years past. We were consumed with what was going on right now. And that word winning, it became a habit, talking about winning and embracing winning, and it just kind of became our thing.
[00:32:34] Speaker B: At what point of the season did you know that this team was going to be successful?
[00:32:39] Speaker E: Probably, and you'll probably get a good laugh at this. We had a couple of exhibitions.
We had a scrimmage against the division one opponent and we won comfortably. And the division one program that we scrimmage was 500 a year ago. So I'm like, wow, maybe we have something here. And then we go and compete against Syracuse, who I think just got a five or a six seed in the woman's NCAA tournament. And we really battled. I mean, they were just so much bigger and more athletic than us. But after the first quarter, we really settled down and battled and, okay, you know, this could be a little bit better than maybe expected or anticipated. And then, to be honest with you, we open the season with a conference game. First time I've ever experienced that in my coaching career, where we open our season with a conference game, we go down to pace on the road, who I believe had eight of their top nine returning, well coached, good team, and we were like a different team. It wasn't a team that I saw on the scrimmage. It wasn't the team that I saw in our exhibition game what it was. It was a really nervous team that made a lot of self inflicted mistakes, and we still had a shot under 15 seconds to go to win the game. And after the game, I looked around the locker room and I saw the heads hanging, the disappointment, and I'm like, okay, we're on to something here. And then I think our next game wasn't a real game. It was another exhibition. We went up and played Vermont, the defending American east conference champions, and boy, did we battle and compete and played them tough. And after that game, I said, hey, now, every game matters. We're owing one. I said, every game matters right now. Are we going to be the team that I watched in a scrimmage and two exhibition games, or are we going to be that team that was nervous and scared, that showed up against pace and they're like, we're not going to be that pace team. We can't wait to play pace again, coach. We're going to do our best to be the team that we know we can be. And from that point on, it just started clicking. The biggest thing is you have to know who you are as a team, and sometimes a team will fight you on it. But this group embraced preparation. We spent an awful lot of time with them, with scouting reports and preparation, so they embraced it. They really started to understand the execution piece, and then they really took the defense and the rebounding piece to heart so much that we finished the season the number one ranked scoring defense in the country and the number one ranked field goal percentage defense in the country. That's hard to do.
Our challenges were mostly on the offensive end of the floor. Our offense would come and go. At times we had trouble making shots consistently, but we always had a chance because of the way we defended and rebounded and because we embraced the preparation.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: And execution, what player stood out for?
[00:36:15] Speaker E: I think every good team needs a really good point guard, and I think Peyton took on so much responsibility for us. She was our primary ball handler. We needed her to handle the ball, handle pressure. We needed her to score the basketball for us. She was an unbelievable competitor, a tremendous rebounder, played the toughest position on the court. I was tough on her I told her she needed to be an extension of me out on the court.
She played through injury, pain.
Whether she was playing well or struggling, she never blinked. And she was kind of the heart and soul of our team because she played the toughest position on the floor. And like I said, there was nothing that was going to happen to her that was going to keep her off the floor. Yeah.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: What did you learn about yourself and the adjustment from coaching men's college basketball to women's college basketball?
[00:37:21] Speaker E: Yeah. The players gave me more than I could ever give them.
They taught me about balance. They taught me that it was okay to smile and laugh and have fun while we were really working hard.
They were just such a pleasure to be around. I became a more patient coach. Without question.
I still had the same beliefs and the preparation, the execution, the toughness, the competitiveness, but I think they softened me up a little bit. I enjoyed the woman's game as far as I love being able to advance the ball under a minute to go. As long as you don't dribble it or pass it, you can advance that ball. So now sideline out of bounds plays really become a factor in the outcome of games. I learned that I don't like the five foul automatic two shot rule. I think it takes something away from the game. I'm a big one in one guy. Step to the line with the pressure and make that first free throw if you want the second one. I think free throw shooters on the woman's side are able to go to that line really relaxed because they know they're getting two shots.
I had a huge adjustment with the officiating because I didn't know any of the officials. Having coached on the men's side for such a long time, I always knew at least two of the three officials that I was going to get each night. More often than not, I knew all three. Now, on the woman's side, we were going to get three officials that I had never seen before, never met before. So I had to learn the personalities quicker. I also learned that not many coaches, at least in the northeast Ten conference, challenged the referees. So I think that I was a little bit difficult for some of the officials because they didn't know how to tape me because I would challenge them and hold them accountable. And then I think as the season went on, the officials and myself, we found that happy medium.
They knew that I was going to hold them accountable and I was going to show emotion and express my feelings. And I think that for the most part, once they saw that I was doing it in a respectful way. I think they learned to appreciate my sarcasm and we were able to develop a little bit of a relationship as the season progressed.
It was great for me. I think I became a better coach and I think that's what it's all about. Just because I've coached a lot of games, that doesn't mean anything. The minute that I stop trying to improve as a coach and get better as a coach and grow and evolve as a coach is when I need to hang up the whistle. I think coaches and athletes probably have the biggest egos out there and I think sometimes we have to check our ego at the door and really understand that it's about growth and development and we don't have it all figured out and we have to get better for ourselves, for our teams and that's something that I really believe in. So when I left Albany and I took over with the know, different game, different type of player, different type of athletes helped me become a better coach. Now coaching on the woman's side for the first time, it's really helped me evolve as a coach. I can't thank Lori Engel enough for offering me the job and then for waiting four weeks for me to make a decision because it was a decision that I'm glad that I was able to make.
Like I said, I think I'm better off for the experience and I'm hopeful that the players feel the same way. And it's just disappointing because I felt we were on the verge of building something really special and if the college was going to stay open, I think we were going to be a force to be reckoned with moving forward. The majority of this team was going to return. I already had some leads on some players that I knew that were going to be entering the portal that wanted to be a part of our program. So I really thought this program was just going to skyrocket.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: What's next for you?
[00:42:14] Speaker E: Yeah, well, once I find homes for all of our current players, then we'll worry about coach Brown. I think I'm really comfortable saying that I'll be on a college sideline at some point moving forward during this cycle. Just have to figure out where. I'm not going to shut any doors either on the men or women's side right now. In the next week or so, the carousel is really going to get moving. It has a little bit already, but I think it's really going to get moving and just going to sit back, see what's out there, see what potentially could be a good fit for me and my family. That's something that is always a concern for me. I've got a great wife who stood by my side every step of the way in my coaching career. So it's very important that whatever I decide to do, it's a we decision, and it's in the best interest of my wife, two boys and myself. But I am looking forward to the next chapter. It'll be right around the corner, I'm sure.
[00:43:29] Speaker B: Well, I always enjoy our chats. Very informative, and I learn a lot from you when I talk basketball here.
Congratulations on a great season. I know it's a tough, unfortunately unfortunate the way things ended at St. Rose, but your program goes out on a winning note, and I think that's great for what you did to that program.
[00:43:51] Speaker E: Well, I appreciate that, Ken, and I appreciate you having me on. And I'd like to thank all of the personalities in the media for all of the coverage that we received. This season means a lot to the program, to the players, to the coaches, and also to the college. Because what it does is, I know everyone has to ask about the college closing, but what it does is I think it makes the college proud. It makes our alumni proud, what the young ladies in our program did this season. And we went out on a high note. So thank you for the coverage. Appreciate you having me on, and hopefully we'll get a chance to talk soon in the near future.
[00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah, because I'm going to need another little promo for my podcast for your next job.
[00:44:42] Speaker E: Well, whatever you need. But I do appreciate you having me on, so thank you. All right.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: Well, appreciate it. Thanks a lot. I'll talk to you soon.
[00:44:49] Speaker E: Take care.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: You, too. Take care. Yeah, thanks, Will. That's Will Brown. Dan Rubin of Uscho.com joins me next. We're going to preview the championship round of the ECAC hockey tournaments. You're listening to the.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Daily Gazette news columnist Andrew Waite and host of the weighing in podcast, which takes you inside my award winning featured news column by offering the backstory, thought process.
[00:45:29] Speaker D: And interviews that inform my work.
[00:45:31] Speaker A: Plus, readers have their chance to respond. The weighing in podcast is
[email protected] or.
[00:45:38] Speaker D: Wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:45:41] Speaker A: Hi, this is Daily Gazette reporter Indiana Nash.
[00:45:44] Speaker F: You're listening to the parting Shots podcast.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: With Daily Gazette sports editor Ken Schott.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: Welcome back to the podcast. And we're going to spend the next couple segments talking ecac hockey tournament Pierre McGuire, who's going to be the analyst for the games up on ESPN, plus up in Lake Placid will join me a little bit later and we'll talk some NHL with him. But first, Dan Rubland from uscho.com joins me for the third and final segment this tournament, postseason. And Dan almost chalk, but St. Lawrence sort of ruined things by upsetting Colgate in that series there.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know what's the funny thing is that I'm starting to feel like more and more frequently we're not going to ever get chopped championships anymore.
These leagues and this league in particular is, there's too much parity.
I was looking at it and when I was looking at the matchups, you're always trying to find which team might be the dark horse and which team might get the run. And you never really take stock of the teams that have to go on the road. But increasingly, what I think I'm starting to see is that a team like St. Lawrence, after it happened, I could have seen it coming. It was the way I felt, especially after the first game was a double overtime. You're like, all right, how does the team respond? And then they just got through that and the fact that they swept Colgate on the road, we were talking about it last week. We were wondering what was going to happen. How does Colgate show up? How does all these things different happen? And it didn't really matter because was the, was the team to, and could you go out there now this week and picture in a one game playoff, St. Lawrence could easily go out and win the whole damn thing.
[00:47:24] Speaker B: Well, yeah, you look at last year, the roles were reversed because Colgate went up to St. Lawrence, ended up sweeping up there. So I guess sort of revenge for the saints to do it down at Colgate. Yeah.
[00:47:35] Speaker A: And you know what's funny is that you'd sit back and you're like, all right, what kind of road trip do you get in the second round? And when Colgate had to go up to the north country, I was sitting there saying, boy, that's a tough trip. I don't care if they're the closest team that has to get to the north country. That's still a tough place to go. I was thinking the same thing about gotta, you gotta go into Hamilton. And Hamilton's not easy to get. So you're, you're coming down from, you know, you still got winter weather up there, I'm assuming. But it's like you're coming down and I'm sitting there, I'm like, this just isn't an easy road trip. But if you're going to have to do it, I guess it's one of those, hey, we got to go down there. It's not going to be an easy trip. So let's go down there and see if we can't enjoy the. What's the line? They used to say? Enjoy the suck or something like that. Just enjoy everything about it that's miserable. Like live in that misery for a couple of days and go out and win it.
[00:48:27] Speaker B: Yep. So we have our final four set. The first semifinal will be Quinnipiac, the top seed going against St. Lawrence. And I want to say mismatch, but one games, anything can happen. And we also know the history of Quinnipiac in this tournament. When they get to the Final Four, they've only won one championship. Tournament. Championship. That was in 2016. They lost last year to colgate in overtime. They lost to Harvard in overtime the year before.
They're in the NCAA tournament. So what's their motivation for this weekend?
[00:48:58] Speaker A: Well, the funny thing is that with Uscho, we actually had a conversation about Rand pecknold and how his coach think his mind operates so far ahead of some of the other coaches that we've spoken to and that I've spoken to in particular.
And it's just from experience and things that he's noticed, which is that his big thing is you want to have the best possible seed over the best possible matchup, because you get things like last change when you're a better seed. So Quinnipiac, when I talked to him during the season, he really wanted to have that last change and be able to be the top seed and be able to be the better seed. Now, if he goes out and loses to St. Lawrence, they're going to fall down to a number three, possibly a number four seed. Based off of how things kind of shake down with the other conferences, they could be down around ten or eleven in the pairwise rankings, which would be a low three seed. And I don't think he wants to be in that position because then you're all but guaranteed to be the, quote, road team in the regional. And he said he didn't want that. So they have to go out, win this whole damn thing, win this whole thing. And if they win ECAC, they'll be able to play as a two seed, which doesn't get you the guarantee that he might want, but it's good enough that also he might be able to stay closer to home, play in Springfield, play in Providence as a two seed. You can kind of see where that would help as opposed to having to go out west as a three seed. Now, to be fair, he also is aware, Rand does a good job of talking about it. Like talking about things know. Yes, they will embrace the fact that Quinnipiac has not won a championship in eight years, and the last team that won the championship was not the Quinnipiac teams that we see right now. And he's not happy about that stuff, I can tell you. I don't think he's ever going to be happy about stuff like that. But the best way, and he'd be the first one to say it, the best way to end those conversations is to go out and do it.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: Yeah. The last ECA hockey team to win the regular season, win the tournament, and an NCAA championship was union ten years ago.
I agree with you. They got to win this tournament to at least have be the quote unquote home team in the semifinal. Whatever region that gets sent to last change, that's tough. Even though they had the last change and did not have the last change in that championship game last year against Minnesota, they found a way to win.
To me, I just think with the firepower that Quinnipiac has, they just got to just run St. Lawrence out of the building on Friday.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there needs to be a statement there, and I think they understand that the difference between eight and eleven is difference between playing Wisconsin as a two seed or playing Minnesota as a three seed. And if you're having to travel and there's a whole bunch of conversation that goes into it, you want to have your easiest path forward. You can't lose this game. And they've been playing kind of with that. They did it last week against RPI. I know RPI kind of took it to them a little bit for a few minutes, but we looked at that and we said, if they understand, if you lose those games, you could lose your spot in the tournament or you could lose the spot you want, then you need to go out, take it to this team, end it early, and then get your rest in and be able to play some of those depth lines. Because whoever comes out of that, the second semifinal is going to be a little less rested, but a little more battle tested because out of the matchups, if this is a closer game, I think St. Lawrence probably, you don't want St. Lawrence to be hanging around if you're Quinnipiac, but at the same time, you want to be able to get that rest because, you know, Cornell and Dartmouth are very good teams.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: Yes.
St. Lawrence. Ben Quas, the goaltender for the Saints stole that series against Colgate, 98 saves in the two games.
That's going to be the key. If he can continue that hot hand, that could frustrate Quinnipiac.
[00:53:02] Speaker A: Yeah, and a lot of things always come out to this that you can ride a hot goalie. If you look at the four teams that made through versus the eight that didn't, a lot of it's going to be based on goaltending and the fact that I think outside of Yale, who entered the tournament with Jack Watson, who's playing some of the best hockey in the league and was one of my top guys in the league in terms.
[00:53:22] Speaker B: Of goaltending, I think you mean Stark.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: Yeah, Jack Stark.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: Got your jacks.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: When I look at Ben Cross and I look at what he's done now, this is his third stop along the way. St. Lawrence, this is his fifth year. Guy played ton of hockey. So he understands what it is to be with Miami through COVID, what it was to be with Arizona State when Arizona State was trying to get in the tournament and trying to fight some of those mathematical, I don't want to say inconsistencies, but some of the things that were in the math and now he's in a position with St. Lawrence to say this is like, this is it for me. I want to go out on a winner. And if you look at these four teams, they all have that goaltender who can go out and steal games and play hot. The question is which one is able to do it? And truthfully, if I look at these two matchups, Ben Cross makes St. Lawrence's defense better. Quinnipiac's defense historically has made its goaltender better. And that's something that actually at this point in the season sometimes comes back to bite Quinnipiac a bit.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, let's look at the other series. Number two, Cornell taking on number four, Dartmouth. Dartmouth really the surprise team in ECAC hockey, a team that was picked to finish 11th after winning just five games last year or four in conference play. They're the hottest team coming in six straight wins. They swept a union last weekend.
This is a team that, I've been saying it till I'm blue in the face, but this is a pesky team. They're resilient and I think a dangerous team and I think a dark horse to win this thing.
[00:55:07] Speaker A: I saw Dartmouth and one of the things that I keep coming back to is an inverse on Dartmouth. I invert a lot on Dartmouth, which is everyone wants to say, well, why would Dartmouth win? And I'm going to say, well, why the find me a reason why they wouldn't win the tournament. And you say, well, they're inexperienced, okay? So they've never been in a situation and be disappointed they don't know any better, or Dartmouth doesn't know how to lose. Yes, they might not know how to win. They might not have won a whole lot over the course of the season, but they did a really good job of avoiding losses. And when you look at the situational numbers, they never lost overtime games. They never lost when they were tied or leading. They know how to come from behind on teams. They just did it to union last weekend.
They know how to win when they score first, and even then, when they don't score first, they know how to not lose. And sometimes that is enough to push you over the finish line in a playoff series where you just say, guys, let's just keep digging and digging and digging and wait for the other team to make a mistake. We have not seen a team like Dartmouth in a very long time, since probably Princeton won it all, which was to say, this team knows how to not lose. And for that reason, if they just keep going about their business, they have depth, they have top flight players, they have a top scorer, they have a top defender, they have a good goalie. I wouldn't say a great goalie out of the four that's in this regional, in the final four, rather, for be. Cooper Black might be the last one I would pick, but he's still very good and he's tall and he's humongous. So it's going to have, you have Luke Haynes, you have CJ Foley, you have Cooper Black, you have all these guys who just know how to play. And Dartmouth's going to be a fun team to watch.
[00:56:56] Speaker B: And the season series between Dartmouth and Cornell, both games ended in ties and both teams each won a shootout. So you can't go to shootout here. And if it goes tied, we're playing all night, possibly. So what's going to be the key for Dartmouth, you think?
[00:57:10] Speaker A: I think it's just got to be playing their brand of hockey. The biggest thing that they can't do is try to enforce a lot on Cornell. It's kind of weird in soccer, there's the counterattacking offense, which kind of lures in the opposing offense and then turns it around into your. And I think that with Cornell, that's a little bit of what you have to do, because if you try to pummel Cornell and you try to attack the net with your best assets, that's not something that's going to work. I mean, this team is. Ian Shane was my player of the year for the league and he's a goalie. The guy has a third goal better than anyone else in the country, and his goals against, he plays really well with a defense that is probably best in the country. And if you try to go at that defense and you try to put up 30 shots, they're just going to turn away 29 of them and beat you. So I think you have to lure Cornell to you and try to get them to make a mistake, because this is a team that isn't particularly great on the penalty kill, and there are a couple of gaps where you can take it to. Yeah.
[00:58:23] Speaker B: Ian Shane with a 1.68 goals against average, 921 save percentage, 19 four and six on the year with three shutouts. As you said, he's been an amazing goaltender and that's going to be an entertaining game. It may be not a high scoring game, I think maybe 2132, but it's going to be fun. That's going to be a fun game to watch.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: I think so. And I think the difference between the two teams is that when you look at their profiles. Right, Cornell, they've been there, they've done it. Mike Schaefer has won more. I think he's played more games. He's played more final appearances. He's coached more final appearances, I should say, than the other three coaches have combined outside of. I think if Brent Brecky, you take away the 2021 game or something like that, the number is absurd. The amount of times that he's been to the final, he's been to the semifinal. Cornell knows how to get to this point. This is their 6th time since the championship relocating to Lake Placid. So we're not even going back to Albany or Atlantic City or the old Lake Placid. It's insane how often they get there. Dartmouth hasn't played for a championship since five years before I was born.
1980 was the last time they played for a championship, and ECAC had three divisions.
They had still had the hockey east teams in there. So Dartmouth is a very different profile, which I think makes the big green. And having spoken to Reed so much over the last couple of years, what I think is that they're going to appreciate it, but fine. Yeah, so we've never been here. It's kind of like.
So why don't we stick around, see if we can enjoy this a little bit longer than one game. I feel like in there, it's kind of one of those guys, everybody's saying we can't win this one over Cornell. Well, I think we can.
[01:00:21] Speaker B: Well, I think also Darwin does have an advantage a little bit with associate head coach Jason Tapp, former union associate head coach. He's been there with union, was part of that national championship team, was part of those three straight ECC hockey tournaments. So he can lend some advice to these guys.
[01:00:38] Speaker A: Yeah, and I know that when it comes down to it, and it comes down to playing in those games, mean Reed Cashman was on the staff. I think I mentioned it last week of the world juniors when he was with Rand in Team USA. He's been kind of an assistant coach with the Washington Capital pre COVID. He's been an assistant at Quinnipiac. He played at Quinnipiac. I think he was an assistant when Quinnipiac won the championship.
He's done a lot. He was actually in all, everything in two different leagues when he was playing for Quinnipiac because he was with the team that moved from atlantic hockey to also, and I'm not ageist by any stretch of the imagination, but he's also young and Mike Schaefer is a legend and he's an incredible coach.
And that Cornell system is going to win. It's going to win. I think if they win and they get into the tournament, they're a team that I could watch for. But I like Dartmouth in a sense that Reed will find a new way and spend that little bit of new, whether it's a european style, whether it's an AHL style, whether it's a new college hockey style, he's going to find that little bit to put Dartmouth in a position to win the game. And again, that's why they haven't lost. I mean, seven ties. They have more ties than losses in this.
It's. They're. They're an intriguing team, even if they might not win.
[01:02:17] Speaker B: Who do you have playing Saturday for the title and winning.
[01:02:21] Speaker A: A. I understand what's kind of coming down at this league. So I think if Cornell does not play Quinnipiac, and it is not something that I think anybody wants to admit, and I don't want to admit it either, which is that a four bid league with a defending national champion could be a one bid league with a three C. I don't think we want any of that as someone who covers the league, I don't think we want that as someone in college hockey to see that the majority of the bids, we'd see ECAC as a one bid league. We'd see the like we don't need that. We need more teams from more leagues. And so I think everybody kind of not understands that. But I'm going to believe that we're going to see Cornell versus Quinnipiac in the championship and then if Cornell wins I think we get both teams in as a league and I think that's something that I want to see. So that's something I want to have happen. So that's something I'm going to say is going to happen. If not, then I'm rooting for absolute chaos. And if that can't happen, I want absolute chaos. I want Dartmouth and St. Lawrence and triple overtime for the championship on Saturday.
[01:03:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun. So some league news came out Monday that Princeton fired head coach Ron Fogerty. Did that catch you by?
[01:03:39] Speaker A: Did it really? Did. I think that there is a. I was talking about this with a couple of people and I said the question remains of where Princeton's ceiling was going to be. I know he won an ecac championship with them and went on that run. He was very good coach at know. I don't like when coaches post COVID have gotten the boot, so to speak, in these couple of years, especially the Ivy League coaches given what they've had to go through. I don't know where the ceiling is for Princeton right now.
I don't know if because this league is so top heavy and we see some of these teams that are always at the top. We're always going to see Quinnipiac at the top. They have a system that works. We're going to see a lot of Cornell at the top. We're going to see a lot of. Now we're seeing Colgate up there. Now we're seeing St. Lawrence jump up and Dartmouth did jump up this year. But the fact remains that there's something to be said for those teams that finish seven through twelve and having the ability to go on that run. And I'm curious what's going to happen with Princeton because even during the year that they won the conference they've never quite been the team. To me that is always going to be at the top of the league and they have to find the way to get forward and post. COVID, I don't love the idea of making a change. I also love, hey, that's why someone gets paid a lot more money than I do.
[01:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it seems like it's been a volatile job down there ever since Guy Gadowski left. I mean they've gone through coaches. And to mean Hoby Baker rink. Yeah, it's a historic rink and all that stuff, but it's old, and I can't imagine the amenities and facilities for the hockey team are that great.
They're going to get a new rink in a couple of years. So Princeton might be the team with needing some upgrades or maybe a new rink, and maybe it's time for them to invest some money in the program.
[01:05:37] Speaker A: I used to say some of this stuff about the arenas because you've been to Atlanta coffee buildings. Our buildings in Atlanta coffee were never good. They just weren't. They were small. They were dinghy. They were municipal ranks. It was underfunded. You barely had a weight room in some of the places. You barely had a skate sharpener in some of these.
And when I was at Bentley, I remember sitting there with Bajar and leaning into it when northeastern came in and when Clarkson came in or when Harvard played there, and you'd be like, oh, this is salt of the earth hockey. You want to come here? This is sandpaper. Like, we want you to put the foil on and play in a cold building with a Zamboni door that you can feel the outside when it happens. The fact remains is that only gets you one win over northeastern. And then when a recruit comes in and you're trying to convince them to come to a place like that, and then you're turning around and you're seeing the fancy cold rooms and tubs and dry rooms and amenities, there is a part of it where you start to say, all right, is the arms race going to bypass people? And I know in ECAC in particular, Brown put in a new locker room, new locker room facilities underneath. I know Harvard has done renovations before when it became Brightlandry hockey center. I remember they renovated the underneath. Union's got the new arena, I believe, Houston Fieldhouse. Did RPI put in some work out there, right?
[01:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, they did some work. New lockers and all that stuff.
[01:07:09] Speaker A: Appleton had one. Appleton had one. They basically rebuilt the arena.
There are difficult conversations that have to be made. And look, Baker rink is the original college hockey.
That's what it's all about. Unfortunately. I don't know that plays with us. I'm going gray and I have kids, and that plays with me. I love old buildings. I love old hockey. But if I'm 17 years old, 18 years old, and going into juniors, I do want some of the flashy stuff, and I do think Princeton does have some of it. But there is a difficult conversation that they have to at least update some of the stuff that's there and maybe look at it. I do think the locker room is nice. I know that they've worked on that locker room. They have good locker room and they have good facilities. But there is a conversation that's at least worth having.
[01:08:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I remember when I was traveling and one particular night of prince, it's so cold in that rink, your feet freeze. And then I'm running down to get to the union locker room. I can't feel my feet as I'm running in. I feel like my feet are going to break.
[01:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And look, I love the building.
I would love to look at that building and I would love to go watch a game there and all that other stuff. But in the arms race of college hockey and the arms and what we kind of have to see, I hate seeing it. But it's like everybody needs to have the jumbo trons and the bells and whistles.
Everyone needs to have it now. And it's going to cause some of these buildings to become very obsolete very quickly.
And there are things like that. Like, all right, my feet were cold when I was standing at Baker rink that some kids somewhere might not like. And I hope there are kids out there that still love it, but it's not.
But what are you going to do? I mean, that's. Look at the buildings that have opened in the last ten years.
[01:09:14] Speaker B: Well, Dan, I appreciate the last three weeks talking Ech hockey tournament action and we'll see what happens this weekend in Lake Placid.
[01:09:23] Speaker A: Hey, strange hockey results in Lake Placid is what this sport is all about, right?
[01:09:27] Speaker B: Yes, that's right, Dan. Appreciate it. Thanks again for doing this.
[01:09:31] Speaker A: Absolutely, Ken. Anytime.
[01:09:32] Speaker B: All right, that's Dan ruin of uscho.com. We'll talk more ech hockey tournament with Pierre McGuire, who's going to be the analyst on ESPN. Plus, this weekend, you're listening to the Parting Shots podcast.
[01:10:15] Speaker F: It's the most historic conference in college hockey. It's a battle night in and night out.
[01:10:21] Speaker A: ECAC Hockey, an iconic conference, home to.
[01:10:25] Speaker F: Twelve of the most prestigious universities and programs in the world and showcasing the.
[01:10:29] Speaker A: Best student athletes in the sport, top.
[01:10:32] Speaker F: Notch facilities and arenas, incomparable traditions, passionate fans, alumni who go on to become elite professionals, leaders and champions.
[01:10:42] Speaker A: Ecac hockey, there's no experience like it.
[01:10:47] Speaker B: Hi, this is Clarkson hockey play by play announcer Bob Allfield. And you're listening to the parting shots podcast with Daily Gazette sports editor Ken shot.
Welcome back to the podcast. We continue our look at the ECAC hockey tournament championship round and my next guest I've known for many years and I've always enjoyed his work when he was NBC's inside the glass on their NHL coverage and he wrote a nice note to me back in the day when I complimented him on his work. And we've been in communication since then and he's going to be calling analyzing the games up in Lake Placard this weekend with Phil Taylor. Please welcome to the broadcast Pierre McGuire. Pierre, it's great to get in touch with you again. It's been a while since we chatted. How are you, my friend?
[01:11:34] Speaker F: I'm doing fantastic, Ken, it's so nice to chat with you. I love your passion for the sport, especially at the college level, and I know you do so much good work around RPI and union, but in particular the entire ECAC and it's a conference that's near and dear to my heart. I played in the conference, I coached in the conference and I've got a son that plays in the conference now. So I'm really a true believer in the ECAC.
[01:11:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great conference. It's grown over the years, obviously three national champions since 2013 with the in 2013 union in 2014 and last year with Quinnipiac. And Quinnipiac obviously has another shot at repeating. So it's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be a lot of fun to watch these games this weekend. Let's talk about these matchups. Let's start with the first semifinal game. Quinnipiac basically ran the table. I'm surprised they lost eight games the way they're so talented. They're going to take on a St. Lawrence team that shocked Colgate. Of course, you were there for those games because your son Ryan plays for Colgate. How do you see this matchup on paper? It looks like it should be a mismatch, but St. Lawrence, Ben Cross, that goaltender for the Saints, stole that series against Colgate.
[01:12:44] Speaker E: He sure did, Ken.
[01:12:46] Speaker F: The biggest thing about St. Lawrence is how hard they play. They're robust, they're extremely well coached. I think Brent Brecky has done a fantastic job with that St. Lawrence team.
They usually roll four lines. They get in your face, they forecheck, they don't give you a lot of room. They block a ton of shots. I'll remind you of a John Tortorella coach team in the NHL, how much shot blocking they do. And you just touched on the key component for them is Ben Cross. He was the story in the Colgate St. Lawrence to be fair, Colgate probably on paper should have won that and on the ICE should have won it. But cross was a huge difference maker, so you put it together. Quinnipiacs have to find a way to overcome the physicality of St. Lawrence and the goaltending of cross. And if they can, they'll be successful. Ken, the one thing I would warn St. Lawrence about, you can't take penalties. You can play physical, but you got to play physical without taking penalties. Because if you take penalties against Quinnipiac, the power play led by Colin Graff is just too good and they'll light St. Lawrence up. I don't care how well cross plays.
[01:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah, Colin Graff, I mean, I saw him play at union his freshman year a couple of years ago and then he transferred and really blossomed last season at Quinnipiac. Helped him win a national title. Missed five games with injuries, but he still leads the team in scoring with 22 goals and 26 assists for 48 points. Has a team leading eight power play goals.
He's obviously on the radar of a lot of NHL teams. What do you like about Collins game?
[01:14:18] Speaker F: He's just a pure finisher. I mean, he reminds me a lot of Corey Perry, who's had such a distinguished NHL career.
I remember the 2005 world junior like it was yesterday when Corey Perry was playing on a line with Patrice Berger on Sydney Crosby and they were just shredding teams and that was really Corey's coming out party. Colin Graph reminds me a lot of that. I don't think he's as mean or as tough physically as Corey Perry, but there's a lot of similarities in terms of how he scores and how he manufactures chances for himself. But the thing that has really impressed me about Colin Graff since he was a young boy, I've been watching him play. The release point on his shot is exceptional and that's going to allow him to play at the next level. He's not an elite skater. He's not overly mean, like I said, but can he ever shoot the puck and find a way to get it to the back of the net?
[01:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah, but for St. Lawrence, they've scored only 86 goals this season. But what's it going to take for them to get some pucks passed up into the net against Quinnipiac?
[01:15:21] Speaker F: They're going to have to get a cycle game going down low. They're going to have to spend more time in the Quinnipiac zone than they spend in their own zone. They can't be given up like they did against Colgate in the two. First period of game one against Colgate, St. Lawrence was outshot 17 to two in the second game against St. Lawrence or against Colgate for St. Lawrence in the first period, they were outshot 17 to two as well. They can't be doing that against Quinnipiac because if they do, it's not a recipe for success. So I would say they've got to spend more time in the Quinnipiac zone, take three penalties or less. If they take three or more, they're going to be in trouble. Three or less, they'll be okay. And then they have to hope that Ben cross plays a fantastic game.
[01:16:08] Speaker B: The one thing with Quinnipiac, the bugaboo about this particular in Lake Placid, in all the years they've been in this conference, they've won just one ECAC hockey tournament title. They lost last year to colgate in overtime. They lost to Harvard in overtime the year before. I mean, they lost to St. Lawrence in 2021 in the pandemic year at home in Hamden, Connecticut.
Quinn Pack knows they're going to be playing in the NCAA next weekend.
How motivated they have to be, because the last time an ECACC team pulled off the hat trick was union in 2014 when they won the regular season, won the tournament and won the NCAA title. So what's it going to take for Quinnipiac to do that?
[01:16:51] Speaker F: I think just to be focused and not lose our focus about, okay, we're in the NCAA tournament, just focus on the ecac tournament. I know it sounds so cliche, play one game at a time. I do think that rand techno, their excellent coach, is going to change some things up in terms of where they stay, how they know what their intensity level is going to be at their morning skate tomorrow, when they get a chance to really skate at the ICE surface here in Lake placid, I think they're going to change a few things up to try. Just get the ICE to understand it's one game at a time. You can't worry about a week from now. You got to worry about this weekend. And if they do that, I do think they have a legitimate chance to win.
[01:17:33] Speaker B: Let's take a look at the other semifinal, which be at 730 on Friday. It's number two seed Cornell against number four seed Dartmouth. Cornell with the veteran head coach Mike Schaefer going up against the up and coming coach at Dartmouth, former Quinnipiac player Reed Cashman. Let's first of all talk about Cornell and Mike Schaefer. It's been around for decades at this. I mean, the job he has done. And obviously Gabriel Sear, another former union player, leading the team in scoring. What do you like about this Cornell team?
[01:18:05] Speaker F: They're really tough defensively. You look at Hank camp, you look at Hoyt Stanley, you talked about Seager.
Seager is a free agent 24 year old player. There are only two ecac players that have won over 400 face offs this year. One is Gabriel Seager and the other one is Ryan Maguire at Colgate. That's a lot of face offs to win, and so that's a big part of how Cornell plays. Their face off game is really strong and it's led by Seeger. They're in your face defensively. They're really stout. Ian Shane has had a tremendous year in goal.
He's a junior now, and every single year that he's been at Cornell, I've seen him improve and improve and improve, and I got some inside knowledge on him. Ken, I played four years of hockey with his father in college, so his father John was a heck of a player. And so Ian has done great, great things in goal for Cornell. But Cornell is more of a typical pro style team. They don't give up OD man rushes. They're really good on face off plays and they're really stout defensively.
[01:19:13] Speaker B: Yeah, Dartmouth, as I mentioned, Reed Cashman, this was a team that was picked to finish 11th in the twelve team conference by the coaches in the preseason poll, and it started right away. The season opens and they get a shootout win against Quinnipiac and then seems like it just built from there. And I called them all season a pesky team. When I talked to Reed a couple weeks ago when they were at union, after they beat union, he called them resilient. Why is this team resilient?
And they end up getting a first round by for the first time since 2011. What makes this team resilient and maybe a dark horse to win this thing?
[01:19:53] Speaker F: Remember when the New Jersey Devils were winning Stanley Cups and Marty Berder was in goal?
[01:19:57] Speaker B: Unfortunately, yes.
[01:20:00] Speaker F: So, Ken, I know I was around those teams a lot. I coached against those teams a lot when I was, whether in Pittsburgh, Hartford or Ottawa as a coach. And I would tell you that every time that New Jersey Devils organization went into a game or a playoff series, they felt they had a chance to win because Marty Berder was so good. I think Dartmouth feels they have a chance to win every game because they have Cooper black. He's six foot, 8240 pounds, undrafted player. Every NHL team is general managers or directors of player personnel to Hanover New Hampshire to watch Cooper black play. I'll be absolutely shocked if he's not signed by an NHL team whenever darkness season ends, he's that good. And so because of that, they feel they have a chance to win every single night. Now, that's not to discount their mobility on the back end. And that mobility is led by John Fusco, the son of Mark Fusco, who is a hoby baker winner at Harvard in the Toronto Maple Leafs draft pick. John's had a tremendous second half of the year and then they've got some grid up front. Sean Chisholm is a 6190 pound junior who really leans on you physically. Cooper Flint in 6225, drafted by Tampa. He's a real good, grinding winger. And Luke Hayes has had a phenomenal year. 18 goals, 18 assists. He's a six 1203 pound sophomore and he hasn't been drafted. And he's had a tremendous, tremendous year. So you put it all together and then you've got a guy that's got huge NHL coaching experience and Reed Cashman. This team has been hard to play against all season long.
[01:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Luke Haynes and Cooper Flinton teamed up for the game winning goal against Union in game two last Saturday. Flint and Pope checked the puck off of union defenseman Nick Young stick, and it ended up to Haynes in the slotty with all alone. And he beat Kyle Chavet with just under six minutes left. And I've watched Haynes in the game against Union. He's a dangerous player. He's no doubt between him and Flint, they are dangerous players. And like I said, they could make a run to me. I would not be shocked if they get to the championship game.
[01:22:08] Speaker F: I wouldn't either. And again, it comes down to just how good Cooper Black can play. Now, you know that Mike Schaeffer and you alluded to it before, Ken, all of his experience. You know, they're not going to make the game easy for Cooper Black. They're going to lean on him. They're going to try to take away his vision. They're going to poke him in the crease. They're going to try to get him off his game. And Mike's done such a good job over all the years of coaching at Cornell. I think it's reasonable to say this is going to be a really tight game between Cornell and Dartmouth. And I do think the only way Dartmouth can win the game is if Cooper Black outgoes Ian Shane.
[01:22:48] Speaker B: Yeah, Cooper Black, as you mentioned, six eight. Even when it goes down to the butterfly style, there's still not much net to score on.
How important is that to try to find a way to beat him?
[01:23:03] Speaker E: It's really important.
[01:23:04] Speaker F: One of the weaknesses and it's not a huge weakness for him, but one of his weaknesses because he's so tall when he drops down into the butterfly he does have a pretty substantial five hole that's exposed. I've seen a bunch of five hole goals go in on him and so if you're cornelling, you're scouting, you're obviously watching tape. I'm sure they've seen that and relayed that to their players.
[01:23:28] Speaker B: It's just amazing. Of course I go back to when I was growing up in Philadelphia. I saw Ken Dryden play. He was a tall goaltender, also played at Cornell, but he was never a butterfly. Mean Cooper Black seemed to mean. I know this is the style goaltending now, but if Cooper Black were a stand up goaltender, how much trouble would other teams have trying to score on them?
[01:23:50] Speaker F: They would never see the net. You would never see four corners of the net and that makes it very difficult. We talked about Marty Broder before. He was one of the guys that was not a butterfly goalie. He was a stand up goalie. He really relied on his edges and he relied on his glove and his ability to read the play.
Broder was six foot two, about 210 pounds.
He wasn't six. 8240. So your point is well taken about Cooper Black. And that's why I think so many NHL teams have made the pilgrimage up to Hanover to watch Cooper black play.
[01:24:23] Speaker B: Who do you think is playing for the championship on Saturday?
[01:24:27] Speaker F: I'm going to think it's going to be Quinnipiak and Cornell. And I say that with trepidation because I do think we could have an upset between Cornell and Dartmouth. It would not shock me if Dartmouth won again because of Cooper Black and that resilience you talked about when you talked with Reed Cashman about Dartmouth. But I do think the top two seeds will eventually play for the championship.
[01:24:51] Speaker B: Well, two weeks ago you were doing the women's ECAC hockey championships at Colgate and you were working with the great John McGraw.
I think one of the best play by play announcers out there in ecac hockey. He's well prepared. And I know this because anytime I'm watching a game when union's out there, he always mentions me and some of the stuff I had written. So what was it like working with Johnny?
[01:25:13] Speaker F: Phenomenal. What a good person. You talk about how thorough he is. There's a Mike Emmerich quality to his preparation that I really admire a lot. I worked with Doc Emmerich for 16 years, both in the NHL and at the Olympics, and it was really special to do those 16 years together with Doc and Eddie Olchuck and before that John Davidson. And what I would say about Johnny is just how prepared he is and how focused he is and how passionate he is. But his level of preparation is second to none. It was very impressive.
[01:25:49] Speaker B: Well, I'm going to ask a couple of NHL questions before I let you know. We're a couple of weeks away from the start of the Stanley cup playoffs and I'm looking at the standings here. I don't see really a big favorite winning this cup. Seemed like we have three or four or even five teams could win the cup this year.
What's your take on that?
[01:26:11] Speaker F: I think there's seven teams that could realistically win the Stanley cup. It's wide open in the west. It's just going to be so draconian and tough to get to the final. Nobody even talks about Dallas and how good they are, but everybody's focused in on how good Edmonton has been, how good Vancouver has been, how good Colorado has been. Nobody's talking about the Dallas Stars and they're for real. They're really good. And Nashville has done a tremendous job with Barry Trots in his first years of GM and Andrew Burnett being his coach. I mean, you look at the beat down they gave San Jose last night, eight to two. And in that game, believe it or not, San Jose had a two one lead.
It's amazing to see the depth that's in the west right now in the east. I think the Florida Panthers, Carolina Hurricanes and the New York Rangers are really the go to teams. But why can't boston upset one of those teams? Why couldn't tampa upset one of those teams? Why couldn't Toronto take a run to the final? So I think when you look at it, it's a beast around the entire National Hockey League, but I think there's six or seven legitimate contenders to win the Stanley Cupcan I really do?
[01:27:21] Speaker B: Yeah. My team, of course, I grew up in Philadelphia, the Flyers, who I did not expect to be in a playoff position this season, obviously. Keith Jones, team president. Danny Breir, general manager and you mentioned John Tortorella earlier. He made a controversial move Tuesday night when he held out Sylvain Sean Couture from that game, and the Flyers won that game. But a lot of the Flyers fans were upset with Tortorella for not playing their captain. But I recall 40 years ago, when Bob McCapman was the general manager and the coach of the Flyers. And in March, he set Bobby Clark and Bill Barber off on a month vacation so they'd be fresh for the playoffs. And unfortunately, Barber screwed up his knee while he was on vacation, never played again, and really moved back far because the Flyers got beat out, ousted by the Capitals in the first round, and Bob McCabell lost his job.
[01:28:15] Speaker F: Well, I can tell you right now, the Montreal Canadiens did that for years and years and years with older players. Now, they didn't give them a month off. They gave them five to seven days off, and they would send them to Florida. There was no salary cap back then, so you didn't have to worry about salary cap implications, and so the players would go down. And Montreal did that for years and years and years with their older guys. And obviously, you look at the amount of Stanley Cups they've won in Montreal, it's pretty amazing.
But the late Bob McCamnell was a real good friend, somebody I respected a lot, and I coached against John Tortorella. I know John really well. He wasn't trying to pick a fight with anybody. He wants to win games, and for couture in particular, who had such a distinguished career, I don't think he's been the same coming back from his injuries. The offensive game is clearly not there. I think he has had one goal in 27 or 28 games. That's not good enough, especially with the amount of ICE time he was getting, and his checking game hasn't been as good. So I understand why John did that. He wasn't trying to pick a fight, though. He's trying to get his team over.
[01:29:20] Speaker B: The hump and get him into the mean. John's a very interesting character, and I'm happy the Flyers are in this position because I honestly did not expect it this year. So it's been a lot of fun watching this team.
[01:29:34] Speaker F: Oh, yeah, no, it's been tremendous. Know Travis Connectney's had a phenomenal year there, but you look at the growth of some of the young players. Morgan Frost would be one, Travis Anheim would be another, Tyson Forrester would be another. The young players there have really improved. It's something that when I was working up in Ottawa, I used to talk to our old coach, DJ Smith, about it. One of the keys in the NHL now, because the workforce is so young, is finding a way to make players better over the course of an NHL season. It never used to be that way. Now it is because of the salary cap and it's a younger person's league, and if you can make your players better over the course of the season, you got a chance to be competitive. And that's exactly what John Porterella and his coaching staff have done in Philadelphia. They really deserve a lot of credit for it.
[01:30:26] Speaker B: Well, Pierre, enjoy your time in Lake class. I'm sorry I'm not up there. If you knew had one, I'd be up there. But enjoy it. We'll be watching on the ESPN plus. And thank you again, my friend.
[01:30:36] Speaker F: I'm so glad you have my number. Now we can talk more often about.
[01:30:40] Speaker E: College hockey and all things hockey.
[01:30:41] Speaker F: I look forward to talking to you again soon and thank you so much for having me on.
[01:30:45] Speaker B: Appreciate, Pierre, thanks again. Pierre McGuire we're back to wrap up the podcast and have the latest winner in the Daily Gazette auto racing contest. In just a moment, you're listening to the parting Shots podcast.
[01:31:16] Speaker E: If you really want to know what's going on in your community, you have to read the Daily Gazette. We don't take a side. We're right down the middle and we're going to get to the truth.
[01:31:25] Speaker B: Our reporters and photographers are out in.
[01:31:28] Speaker E: The field bringing you updates every minute with trust, accuracy and integrity from the first page to the last page. Independent, probing journalism. We're finding out what's going on in communities where nobody else is covering. It's who we are. It's what we do.
[01:31:47] Speaker A: Hi, this is Daily Gazette reporter Natasha von Holdridge. You're listening to the parting shots podcast.
[01:31:53] Speaker D: With Daily Gazette sports editor Ken Schott.
[01:31:56] Speaker B: Back to wrap up the podcast. The week five winner in the Daily Gazettes auto racing contest was, for the second straight week, David Clements of Mechanicville with 65 points. David wins a $50 gift card. Congratulations again, David. The VIP winner was also for the second straight week, Scott Lucier of Capital Land GMC with 35 points. I'll announce the auto racing contest winner's name and that winner's name will appear in Saturday's Daily Gazette. To play, go to dailyGazette.com and click on the auto racing contest banner.
Just because COVID-19 mandates are easing, that does not mean you should relax, be vigilant. If you have not gotten vaccinated or received a booster shot, please do so. Do it for yourself, do it for your family, and do it for your friends. That wraps up another edition of the parting shots podcast. I want to thank Adam Schinder, Mike McAdam, Will Brown, Dan Rubin and Pierre McGuire for being on the show. If you have questions or comments about the podcast, email them to me at shot. That's
[email protected]. Follow me on X and threads at slapshots.
The views expressed on the parting shots podcast are not necessarily those of the Daily Gazette Company. The Parting Shots podcast is a production of the Daily Gazette Company. I'm Daily Gazette sports editor Ken shot. Thanks for listening, and I'll catch you next time from the parting Shots podcast studio in Schenectady, New York. Good day. Good sports.
