[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: The following program is brought to you.
[00:00:05] Speaker C: In living color on Dell gazette.com or wherever you get your podcast.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: The Daily Gazette Company presents the parting Shots Podcast.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Now here's your host, Daily Gazette sports editor Ken Shot.
[00:00:23] Speaker C: Thank you, Scott Kezy, and welcome to the Parting Shots Podcast, available wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe today. Thanks for joining me. From the Parting Shots Podcast studio in Schenectady, New York, we have another great show for you. We're going to talk with former RPI men's head hockey coach Dave Smith. He's now in charge of the Rapid City Rush head coach and general manager of that ECHL team. We don't say East Coast Hockey League because it really doesn't stand, you know, it says ECHL doesn't stand for East Coast Hockey League anymore. It's been that way for a long time because that this league is spread about over the North America, so from east coast to West Coast. So we'll talk to Dave about his new job and we'll talk about what happened at rpi. He was relieved of his duties a couple of days after the Engineers lost to Harvard in the ECAC hockey Tournament first round game. So Dave Smith will join us on that. And then after that, Mike McAdam, our Gazette horse racing writer, will talk about the start of the unofficial, I guess you say unofficial start of the Saratoga horse racing season because the the July 4 festival, which is normally down at Belmont or Aqueduct, it was moved up from Aqueduct. And of course, we know Belmont is still under reconstruction.
So we're going to have four days of extra horse racing starting Thursday at Saratoga Racecourse. Mike will talk about that. And we really will get into the passing of trainer D. Wayne Lucas at the age of 89 on Saturday. Mike has a lot of great things to say about D. Wayne Lucas, so please tune in for that. So coming up, Dave Smith, we're going to talk hockey, both pro hockey and RPI hockey. You're listening to the Parting Shots podcast.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Stan. And I'm Shen. And each week we bring you the.
[00:02:14] Speaker C: Stan and Shen Show.
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[00:02:38] Speaker A: Hi. This is Craig Conray, Calgary Flames general manager, Clarkson hockey legend and New York State Hockey hall of Famer. You're listening to the Parting Shots podcast with Daily Gazette sports sports editor Kenshaw.
[00:02:51] Speaker C: Welcome back to the podcast. My next guest was head coach at RPI Hockey for eight seasons, and now he has a new job. He's going to be taking over the Rapid City Rush in the echl. Don't call it the East Coast Hockey League, because that's not what it's called anymore. Let's welcome Dave Smith to the podcast. Dave, how are things going?
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Going very well, Ken. Thanks for having me on.
[00:03:11] Speaker C: Well, thank you for coming on. We haven't really chatted since your dismissal. To our pair. We'll get into that a little bit. But first of all, how excited are you for this new challenge out in Rapid City, South Dakota?
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, as. As we gain years and experience, you realize everything is another chapter, a different part of your own story. And this is the next chapter that, you know, we're excited, very excited about. My wife Susan and I, we'll head out to South Dakota.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: How did this come about?
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Well, I think, you know, that question gets asked a lot, and I don't know if it's a straight line. It's not, I did this or somebody else did that. I think it's, you know, years of connecting through the recruiting business, the pro side of things with your friends, you know, agents, and then all of a sudden conversations come together and, you know, it's one phone call from the, from the Rapid City organization and it feels good and you have another one. And then, you know, by the end, you know, there's a job offer and then a new partnership form.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: In a way.
[00:04:23] Speaker C: Dave, you know, the ECHL is sort of like the AA in minor hockey league. Of course, you have the ahl, which is the aaa.
Being a general manager coach, it's sort of like being a college coach because I know some.
You're associated with the Calgary Flames there and they'll provide some players, but you had to, you know, go out and basically recruit players to join you. Isn't that the case?
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You've got a, you know, our job, myself and, and the staff assistant coach, Peter Dricos, but also, you know, the, the team personnel. We're there to recruit and build a team.
And as a general manager, that's the hat that I wear, you know, all summer, but also a little bit during the season. So we go out and try to, you know, sell what the environment is in the locker room, what the environment is in the city, and how first class our organization is and how they treat players. And in this case in Rapid City, it's been. It's been really easy because the people that I've talked to that were there before and they're currently, as the players that are protected, they love it there. They love it. And I didn't know too much about it, but we've sent a few players over the years to Rapid City and they all said good things. So, yeah, we've got a lot of hats to wear in the ECHL as GM and coach.
[00:05:37] Speaker C: Well, I know one player has been splitting time between Rapid City and the Calgary Wrinklers in the ehl. As a former union goaltender, Connor Murphy, who has always seemed to be thorn in your side, especially in the Mayors cup, have you had a chance to talk to Connor?
[00:05:52] Speaker A: I haven't talked to Connor yet. I know that I'm not sure if he was on a straight AHL or an NHL dealer.
I'm not sure. But those guys, you know, sort of the. The timeline filter filters down for them that if either the NHL or the American League team sign him and the ECHL is in, you know, his. His sight, then that's when we'll start to get a little bit more involved. But I have not talked to Connor yet, but I do know he was there.
[00:06:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Did you think about maybe taking some time off after rpi? Just maybe just, you know, take a breather? Maybe for a year or so would have. Or was it your goal to get back into coaching somewhere? Either way, either the pro or the college level.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: You know, things happen so fast in terms of, you know, Friday night was playing at Harvard and, you know, you put together a game plan and a belief and a mindset that you're going to win, and all of a sudden it's over and you come back and then, you know, changes are made.
Really. All the only plans I had was to, you know, spend time with family and to pay attention to my own thoughts and feelings and the feelings and thoughts of my wife and my two daughters, our two daughters. And, you know, I woke up the next morning, would have been a Tuesday morning, and my immediate feeling was, you know what? I want to. I want to keep doing something. I want to do something. Now I don't really want to take a break, but I said, you know, I went and spent a week with one daughter and down south and another daughter farther down south. And then I spent some time with just my wife. And those are different experiences where your children don't really know how to treat their parents. That, you know, has Just been let go from a job that they love, and, you know, so. But through all of that, I just. I realized that I didn't want to take any time. I wanted to work, and I want to stay active. And I love, love the business of hockey. And while it can be, you know, cruel and unusual, I wanted to stay in it.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: What was it like that Monday when RPI athletic director Dr. Christy Bowers informed you that you are no longer the head coach?
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Not sure. And really how to. How to put those things into words. I mean, I know that, you know, when things happen and lots of things happen at rpi, and it really goes back to, you know, everybody has a story to tell, and, you know, our story might be different than other people, but how RPI hockey and the institution came out of COVID was still a part of the story on that Monday, the last Monday.
And then, you know, again, a new president, new athletic director. And as things change, things continue to change. So how did I feel again? Disappointed, for sure, because, you know, you put not only myself, but Chuck Weber, Matthias Lang, Carlos, who put everything into it. Liam Paul, you put everything into it, trying to get it to go. And, you know, that, you know, there's reasons you are where you are, and some of them are in your control and some of them are out of them. But definitely a unique and different feeling that obviously, by my words, it's hard to describe.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: I mean, you have eight seasons there at rpi.
What do you cherish the most and what do you regret the most?
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Well, I don't live in a world of regrets. I'll start with that one. Because every decision is pretty much thought out, right? You set a plan, you set a course of action.
And much like we would tell our team, and you say it all the time, it's not about anything other than win and reflect or learn and grow.
And I learned a lot.
I grew a lot, made some terrific friends and had some experiences, both positive and negative, but it helped me be a better father, be a better husband, be a better coach. So I don't know that anything really gets classified into one thing other than experiences and memories and relationships. And we learn and we grow.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: You mentioned Covid. I mean, let's go back to, like, the 2019, 20 season. And I had been two years back here since as associate sports editor after I had been laid off in 2017. Mike McAdam, who, by the way, says hello, he was covering union at the time. And I was off on a Sunday, sitting on my couch watching tv, when the email Came in about the press conference that RPI was having announcing that there won't be any fans for the ECAC Hockey tournament quarterfinal game against series against Harvard. And I know after I wrote the story, a lot of people were complaining, well, why, why, why? And, and then what happened a few days later when the Ivy League said, we're not playing anymore, we're done for the sports season with the COVID And basically after at the.
They tried to get Colgate in as a substitute opponent, but then EC Hockey shut things down. And I felt at that time you got way. The guys were. Your team was playing at that time. I think you guys had a legitimate chance at winning the ECAC Hockey tournament.
How difficult was that knowing that team was playing so well going into the tournament? You had a first round bye, obviously.
How devastating was that to not be able to go fulfill that goal?
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Well, it's devastating and challenging and a lot of, A lot of adversity. But maybe not in the moment, right? Not at that moment. At that moment, I think we were all, as a, as a world, as America was trying to. And Canada was trying to figure out what the heck was going on.
And you know, I think I remember there was like, there was legit fear for so many different things that we look back on it now as a different memory.
On the hockey side of things alone.
I was really proud of what we did. We had made some real tough decisions, you know, on the ice, off the ice. And the blueprint worked. I know the blueprint works. And that was validation because we had, we were on a roll. We had a lot of momentum, we had a lot of pride and special, just special feelings around that group that, you know, we're coming together at the right time. And I had been a part of it on teams at Canisius. You know, I think one year we went undefeated in 17 games and, you know, another year we, you know, got on a run and went to the NCAA tournament. And when you get that in the college environment, it is something special. And we had created a lot of that. And so, you know, it's.
It's. Again, it's hard to describe because you can't measure and say, well, 7 out of 10, 80% chance anything like that, but, man, we were good. We had a really good team. And to have so much change literally in one week from as you described it exactly right.
You know, we beat Dartmouth on the road, we beat Harvard on the road, Beat Dartmouth on the road, we clinched fourth.
And then over such a short period of time, it's all taken away, not just from us, but from many, many, many people in sports teams. And then to know now look back and see the impact it had on so many different businesses and people. And, you know, we're talking about the RPI hockey team. And I still don't think the RPI hockey program has recovered from those. Those days.
[00:14:04] Speaker C: Yeah, because in 2020, 21, the school followed the lead of the IVs, decided not to play. Of course, union did the same thing. So basically, you're down to four ECC hockey teams in that 2020-21 season.
And then they come back in 21, 22, but with the stipulation that I believe was Dr. Shirley Jackson, who maybe ordered this order might be a strong word, but the only fans allowed at the all RPI sporting events were on campus.
Students, faculty and staff. Nobody from the outside. I was kind of surprised the media was allowed to cover games at hockey. But how much was that?
How much did that year really affect the program? Because it seemed like NHL scouts weren't allowed to come, and it seemed like players entered the transfer portal after that season.
A lot of players entered the portal.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Well, the narrative around hockey, and I look at what we did in recruiting, we were recruiting hockey players that could do the schoolwork, not just students who could play hockey. And the court of public opinion really devastated the RPI hockey narrative.
And that's when, you know, players left. And the guys that wanted to play hockey would just, you know, and coaches and agents and scouts would say, well, how you're recruiting hockey players, you don't go there because hockey is not important. Look at the decisions that they've made. And, you know, that that was felt immediately with the transfer, but it was also felt, you know, one, two, three, four years down the line when we were putting our efforts into just convincing people that RPI was a place that good hockey players could go.
And, you know, it's.
It was. It was very much a challenge.
And I think it still remains that. That, you know, how important is hockey, but, you know, you don't.
You know, it's important in the moment, and, you know, you can feel things happening and you dig in and do the best we can.
[00:16:13] Speaker C: How well do you know Eric Lang and how do you think he'll do?
[00:16:17] Speaker A: I wish him the best, honestly, I.
Eric and I have been friends for a long time. There's some family connections between his wife and my daughter. And, you know, I don't wish ill will on anybody, but I do.
You know, I'll follow it from the outside and wish them all the best.
[00:16:39] Speaker C: What will you miss about RPI and college coaching in particular?
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Well, there's a path to the fan base. Right. And I think they were hurt by some of the COVID decisions as well. And you know, the first thing that I think about is, you know, my wife also worked at RPI and she loved the environment and you know, the connections that you make with people around the community, the students.
You know, again, I think of my wife and I as a team and, and that branched out across different sports, different, different businesses, different friendship groups and you know, that's what you miss right away.
[00:17:18] Speaker C: How much you looking forward to getting going in with this new job? I mean that's, it's. Yeah. You know, the way the schedule is in that league, you're not going to come east, unfortunately. It'll be out in the Midwest with a lot of travel, I would imagine. Out in Rapid City.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean it's a, it's a, the first class operation. We fly everywhere. No bus trips. We fly everywhere. And a lot of work and planning and teamwork goes into each of those trips and that's already started, you know, so I think I've been on the job as of, you know, the, the tape and recording of this podcast. I've been on the job, you know, approaching two weeks maybe. I can't remember just before, just over, just under two weeks. But you know, every day we're doing something just trying to build our team.
[00:18:02] Speaker C: Well, I was reading the press release on the team's website. They have had the press conference introduced you yet?
Not till Wednesday. Not till next Wednesday.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Yeah. There's some simplicity in pro hockey that he said everything is around the hockey program. And you know, I've done, done a number of interviews with the media there and been able to connect with the players and also been able to, you know, find some players. So, you know, the, the timing of the press conference is. I think it's the seventh or at least next week. So that'll be, you know, get some things lined up in advance to meet the sponsors, to meet the people that are here around the city as well as we've already got some water under the bridge with some of the players.
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Well, well, Dave, I appreciate all you've done. I know, you know, fortunately, the way our business and the newspaper business is, it's where we're, you know, we love to be able to go cover our PI where you just don't have the bodies anymore, unfortunately. But you've always been nice with me and cooperative whether needed some information. I think I appreciate what you've done and I wish you all the best out in Rapid City.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Well, thanks, Ken. And you know, give Mike a hello back. And you know, there's a lot of good people that are passionate about what you do and it makes a difference. And you know, my like I said, we learn and grow from each experience and you know, we'll even though it is painful how some, some of the chapters end, the next chapter starts with excitement and my wife Susan and I are looking forward to that.
[00:19:30] Speaker C: Well, good luck out there and maybe bring home a Kelly cup championship.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: That'd be great. We're looking. That's what we're trying to do.
[00:19:37] Speaker C: All right. They appreciate a few minutes. Thanks again.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Thanks.
[00:19:40] Speaker C: All right, that's Dave Smith. Coming up, we're going to talk Saratoga horse racing with Mike McAdam Myro, because that horse racing expert, you're listening to the Parting Shots podcast.
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[00:20:26] Speaker B: What's up, everybody? This is Freddie Coleman from ESPN Radio's Freddie and Harry Show, 3pm to 7pm Eastern Time, Monday through Friday. You're listening to the Party Shots podcast with my man Ken Shot, the Daily Gazette sports editor.
[00:20:39] Speaker C: Welcome back to the podcast. And it's time for horse racing again at Saratoga. Not the official start of the regular meet, but we have the July 4th festival getting underway on Thursday at the track. And Our man Mike McAdam at the track with Mack will be there, of course, all four days. And Mike, how much you looking forward to this is we'll get into the logistics of why it's up here, but it seems like some more bonus horse racing for you.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: Nine extra days of racing compared to the usual 40 between the five days of the Belmont Racing Festival and then the four days, you know, coming up with the Fourth of July. It's like I took vacation last week for a reason. Sort of like the calm before the two storms between the storms instead of in the middle of the storm.
So we're cranking it up again. I was at the Barns this morning, Tuesday and Sunday as well. And it's, it's still kind of a ghost town up there a little bit. You know, they're still making their way up from downstate, but by the end of this week, you know, it's, it's going to be, you know, a week early on the usual traditional start of the Saratoga meet. But it'll be, you know, quite the bustling place come Thursday when they start the 4th of July festival.
[00:21:56] Speaker C: And speaking of weather and all storms come before the storm was we're taping this here on Tuesday afternoon. It is pouring outside our Parting Shots podcast studio here at the Daily Gazette offices. So it's kind of crazy day, so with the weather.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: But, and the funny thing is I checked the forecast for the rest of the week and it was only supposed to rain this morning and it didn't. And then now it is. And, but so I'll have to go back and revisit that to see if anything else is shifting. But I mean, through Saturday, I think it was, it was looking like 80s and sunny. But you never know at Saratoga. It could change in a heartbeat.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: Well, the meteorologists have all these tools and they somehow still manage to get the weather forecast wrong.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Favorite is street level radar. I got your street level radar. It's called My Two Eyes that Work.
I love that one.
[00:22:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. It's, it's amazing the technology they have. And like I said, they still get around. I thought, I think they were more accurate back in the 70s when they didn't have the, all that technology. But we digress. But let's get talking what we're here for. Horse racing. And unfortunately, on some sad news on the eve of the July 4 Festival at Saratoga, thoroughbred racing loss of legend on Saturday, when Hall of Fame trainer D. Wayne Lucas died at the age of 89, surrounded by family at his home in Louisville, Kentucky.
Mike, can you summarize his impact on the sport and what racing will miss now that he's gone?
[00:23:21] Speaker B: What's the time limit on this podcast?
[00:23:23] Speaker C: There is no time limit.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: Even a summary is going to take a little bit.
[00:23:26] Speaker C: Go ahead.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Just to cover all the accomplishments that D. Wayne Lucas did over decades and decades.
And, and just for background purposes, it wasn't like a big surprise, but everything did sort of accelerate pretty quickly. He kind of abruptly retired from, you know, announced his retirement from training, you know, a week or so ago.
And, you know, we heard he was in hospice and so it seemed like only a matter of time. And then Saturday, his Family announced that he died peacefully at home in Louisville.
What this guy. Let's start with what he did on the track. I mean, back in the 80s and 90s, he was as dominant as you can possibly be as a thoroughbred trainer across from coast to coast in the United States.
You know, the Jockeys Guild put out a bunch of quotes this afternoon that they gathered from some of the longtime jockeys that had worked with Wayne for a long time, including Angel Cordero, who aptly compared him to Michael Jordan and Tiger woods of the training profession. And it's not hyperbole at all, the stuff that he did.
Inducted into the hall of Fame in 1999, 15 Triple Crown race victories, including a stretch of six straight over the span of 94 through 96 with like four different horses. And the funny thing is, I was. I went back to Double Check to see how many times he actually ran a horse in the Belmont Stakes with a chance to win a Triple Crown. And it was never, believe it or not. And part of the reason why was in Charismatic, what the heck year was. It would have been 95.
He won the Derby and then finished third in the Preakness and then won the Belmont. I'm sorry, he's the only one that had a chance. He won the. He won the Derby in the Belmont. So it's amazing that he only had one. One shot at it. And then Charismatic finished third in the Belmont to thwart his Triple Crown bids.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: But.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: But another illustration of the kind of accomplishments that. That Wayne had, particularly in the Triple Crown races, was he essentially won a trainer career Triple Crown in one year.
Unfortunately, Thunder Gulch lost the second leg, the Preakness, to his.
His stable mate in 95, timber country. So then Thunder Golts came back and won the Belmont and the Travers.
So Wayne won all three legs of the Triple Crown that year, but with two different horses and one of whom got beaten the Preakness. So he. So Thunder Goats never had a shot to win the Triple Crown.
So that's just the Triple Crown stuff. You know, you can look at winning colors. In 1988, she was only the third Philly to win the Kentucky Derby, which is kind of illustrates how.
How far reaching Wayne's mind came when it came, you know, when it came to finding spots for his horses and being aggressive with them, because, you know, in the meantime, he. He won the Whitney at Saratoga with another Philly ladies secret in 1986. Like I said, the 80s and 90s, he just crushed it. I remember writing a kind of a profile of him in the midst of this, when I first started covering racing, it might have been in the early 90s or something. And the easy analogy was Godzilla, which I used in the lead. That story, I have to maybe dig it up and find it again. But, you know, it was a proper comparison because he just laid waste to the whole, you know, the whole racing landscape, especially in the Triple Crown races.
But he was good in, like, all divisions, and he was very aggressive in running his horses when they were, you know, ready to, you know, strike while the iron is hot.
He.
Besides what he did on the racetrack, though, he very much revolutionized the profession of thoroughbred training in this country. And by that I mean what I already mentioned, that he, you know, he laid waste coast to coast.
He had strings in Kentucky, California, New York, primarily running them all at the same time with like 150, 200 horses, all of them really good horses. So he kind of developed this. This template of, you know, sort of the corporate trainer who, you know, had to have very good management skills to keep track. You know, he can only be in one place. He hired very good people, including Todd Fletcher, who went on to make it into the hall of Fame.
That is very much in evidence now with, you know, kind of the super trainer concept, where, you know, a small number of trainers have most of the really good grade one caliber horses. And he kind of started that for good or bad.
I will say also that back in the day, when he was at the height of his powers, you know, he was actually looked upon as kind of a villain because he had all the good stuff. He was very brash and outspoken. He's a sports writer's dream and always has been. He would give you so much good stuff. I can remember one year, I think it was leading into the Travers, and he was making up pun, like derogatory pun names for other Traverse competitors, horses, including Star Standard, who was a, you know, a horse in Nick Zito's barn. And Wayne was sort of like handicapping the field. I remember him just offhand, you know, referring to Star Standard as substandard. He's like throwing these little dig jokes and stuff. I'm like, you can never see anybody do that these days. I mean, really, a revolutionary character. Charismatic.
Like I said, a sports writer's dream. But then in. In, I don't know, last 10, 20 years, he sort of transformed into this, like the grandfather, you know, the benevolent grandfather of racing that everybody looked up to, I can tell you, everybody who covers the Preakness from a media standpoint, whether he's got a horse in it or not. If he's. He's over at that stakes bar in a Pimlico, you stop by and just ask him some questions and get them rolling, telling stories about the old days and you'll be there for a while and you'll get just tremendous material, as was the case last year and this year as well.
But in the meantime. So he naturally was never keep that 80s and 90s success going forever. But that doesn't mean he fell off the planet as far as being a, you know, a successful trainer. He won this Preakness last year with Caesar the Gray at the age of.
Would have been 80, 88.
Yeah, he would have been 87 because his 88th birthday was on September 2nd, the closing day of the Saratoga meet. And I bring that up for another reason. Oh, by the way, he won the first race on that card, the closing day card at Saratoga last year on his birthday with a 7 to 1 shot named Daily Grind, which I thought was pretty appropriate and pretty cool.
So his accomplishments are astonishing, but his sort of contribution to the lore of the sport and being sort of an influence on so many other people. You look at the roster of big time trainers I already mentioned, Todd Fletcher that were assistants under Wayne and went on to have great careers.
You know, people like Kieran McLaughlin and Dallas Stewart and George Weaver.
So really sort of a. Turned into the patriarch of the sport in the last 20 years or so after being sort of this, you know, monster gobbling up all the good stuff in the 80s and 90s. Really interesting character.
His loss will be felt throughout the entire sport and you'll see a guarantee. I have. I haven't checked in with these guys yet, but I guarantee Naira's going to have some.
They'll probably have some sort of tribute during the 4th of July festival this week and they'll probably do something for him during the meet as well. And it'll be richly deserved for sure.
[00:31:22] Speaker C: Do you think somewhere down the road, the name of stakes race after him.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: At Saratoga, there actually already is one at Santa Anita, I think, and it's. I believe it's a grade one on the dirt.
Yeah, it's called the Lucas Classic, I'm pretty sure. I think there's a grade one out at Santa Anita. So that that ship has already sailed. They'll have to come up with some other, other material. But they will and it'll be, like I said, very much deserved that.
[00:31:50] Speaker C: He worked as a trader up almost until his passing. What does that say about him?
[00:31:56] Speaker B: Well, that. But also, not only was he still working as a trainer, and I gotta tell you, when he had seized the gray winning the Preakness last year, it was with an ownership group called myracehorse.com which is this new, expanded concept on the whole partnership thing, where I don't know what the fee is. If you could pay, like, 50 bucks and get a piece of a horse. And then, like, that horse last year had over 2,000, quote, unquote owners who all had it like this, you know, owned, like, two hairs on the horse's tail, essentially.
So for him, you know, being a longtime traditionalist, to get involved in that sort of revolutionary concept, and you can say what you want, good or bad, about the whole race, my racehorse. And they have so many owners that they basically have to run a lottery to, like, a random thing to pick who gets to go in the winner's circle. So that's not like 2,000 people, and it's more like a manageable 50 or 100 or something like that.
So he was still.
Still doing it at a high level. And not only that, another symbol, I guess, of his enduring impact on the sport, or at least how this guy in his upper 80s was still doing it and still a highly competitive person. But he was getting on the pony every morning and ponying his houses, horses out to the track. I mean, nobody does that at 88, 89. And it was kind of a cool tribute. At Churchill Downs a couple days ago, one of the outriders actually ponied Wayne's pony, whose name is Bucky, out onto the track, you know, as if he was kind of, you know, bringing him out there just to kind of show people. But it was a very. It was a wonderful gesture and kind of illustrated how much respect people have for him, but also a reminder that Wayne was still kicking butt, like, you know, as much to the extent that he could at his age, and. But he's still getting on the pony every morning, for crying out loud.
[00:33:46] Speaker C: Yeah, and you mentioned he seemed like the villain back in the day, but you think Bob Baffert took over that role. And he did in two ways.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah, he did in becoming the dominant force on the Triple Crown trail, but also being the brash, outspoke spoken, you know, person, the face of the sport, and, you know, the easy to, you know, the love to hate sort of thing going on there, and. And again, a media person's dream. Just great quotes and, you know, very willing interview and gave you good stuff. But, yeah, he. He inherited Wayne's role in Two different ways. One being success in the Triple Crown races and then also sort of being the bad guy. And that a lot of that was more linked to like the drug overages and the kind of controversies that Baffert had along those lines.
Wayne, I don't know if he had any history with that. It escapes me. He didn't have anything like that in, you know, last 20 years or something where he sort of was considered dirty or anything like that from a drug standpoint. But, yeah, that was a, that was a smooth transition from Wayne being this big juggernaut, you know, brash bad guy to Baffert sort of assuming that rule role. That's a good observation on your part.
[00:34:59] Speaker C: And then Baffer, guy, who's really much of a horse racing aficionado.
[00:35:04] Speaker B: Well, that shows you the magnitude though, too. Again, back to a lot of my original points. If, I mean, if you are familiar with that, it shows you how much they've. Guys like that have crossed into the mainstream and it's because of their accomplishments. You know, the Triple Crown gets probably an inordinate amount of attention, but, you know, that's, that's what people identify with if they don't follow the sport. So it's natural.
[00:35:25] Speaker C: And as you mentioned, he seems like Dwayne Lucas was a guy, great guy to interview. Is there any memorable quote that sticks out to you that he gave you?
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Oh, boy, they all were. And. Which makes it tough to pinpoint one.
I'll have to go back because I actually took video of him walking into the winner circle after Daily Grind won that the opening race of the, the, you know, closing day card at Saratoga last year. People were just like, like spur of the moment. Whoever was down in there just started singing happy Birthday to him. And I'm sure he had some, you know, he had some good quotes again about how competitive he still is. And that fire will never burn out, you know, when we talk to him after Daily Ground. Right. And this was not like a big stakes race or anything like that, but I mean, the fire never stopped burning in him from, from a competitive standpoint.
[00:36:19] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Also last Saturday was also another sad news coming out of the horse racing when two time Whitney winner commentator died at the age of 24. What do you remember about commentator?
[00:36:32] Speaker B: Couple things I remember about him. And you know, from a record standpoint for him to win the Whitney in 2005 and 2008 as a new York bread, no less, there's only like two other horses that have won it twice in the first running of the Whitney was like 1930 something.
Kelso and Discovery were the other two. They both won it three times. Kelso won it three years in a row, for crying out loud.
But I remember COMMENTATOR it was just the pride of the New York Bread program. I also remember they had like some sort of commemorative day for him. I don't know if he was racing or what the deal was, but they brought like a huge carrot cake with frosting on it into the winter circle for him. He took a bite out of it, sort of, which is kind of a fun thing. He was trained by Nick Zito and. And just a really fun horse. The other thing I remember about him was visiting him at Old Friends at Cabin Creek, which is where he was euthanized or. Well, he was euthanized at the hospital, but that's where he was staying for. Let's see, when did he. He. They got him there in 2016, I think it was.
And he was a fan favorite just being a two time Whitney winner and going there and being warned, you know, don't try to pet him because he'll bite your hand off. Even at the advanced age of 20, whatever. So you had to be careful around him, you know, still had his. Speaking of still having your competitive juices going at an, you know, advanced age. That was him. Just like Wayne Lucas.
[00:38:02] Speaker C: Yeah. So as we mentioned, a July 4th festival at Saratoga starts on Thursday. So what can we expect from the four days of racing from Thursday to Sunday? And who are some of the top horses that you're looking forward to seeing?
[00:38:16] Speaker B: We've got 10 stakes races. Six of them are graded. Some of them racing fans are very familiar with, including the Suburban, which is on Friday. Friday is really the big day from a stake standpoint.
It's interesting that they, they moved up the Sanford and the Schuylerville. Those are the two traditional Saratoga stakes for graded stakes for two year olds on the dirt, which is usually opening weekend of the Saratoga meet. I think they're the philosophy there was to spread out the three legs of, you know, they have a.
Another set in the middle of the meet and another. Then they have the hopeful and the spin away on closing weekend just restricted to the two year old side. That was kind of interesting and they might be trying to spread that program out a little bit.
So we will see a lot of two year old races which this is kind of the time of year when, you know, they start to get some racing experience.
You know, I mean there's unraced horses running in the Schuylerville So it'll be kind of interesting to get kind of that first eyeball on the, the, the juveniles.
Two horses that really stick jump off the page for me are Zulu Kingdom in the grade three Manila on Friday and Nitrogen in the grade one Belmont Oaks.
For three year old Phillies on the turf on Saturday, these two jump out. They're both three year olds, they both run on the grass.
Zulu Kingdom is five for six in his career. His only loss was a seventh place finish in the Breeders Cup Juvenile Turf last year. And I talked to trainer Chad Brown this morning about him a little bit and he said he's hoping he has sort of a Carl Spackler like campaign this year.
Like I said, he'd be undefeated if not for that seventh in the Breeders cup when he had a really bad trip. So he's running in the Manila on Friday. Zulu Kingdom, then Nitrogen. Our, our old buddy Nitrogen, we remember from having run in the Wonder again during the Belmont Stakes Racing Festival in June on a day when it was, when it was the race was rained off the turf. And trainer Marc Cassie said screw it, we're running anyway. Even though she's been exclusively a turf war since the beginning of her career way back in August of last year and she wound up and there's a lot of scratches so she was only running against two other horses. But she won by 17 lengths on the main track sloppy and he kind of said, I don't know, maybe we should run around the Dirty Gun. But he's not doing that quite yet. He's gonna run her in this grade one Belmont Oaks on Saturday.
So it'll be interesting. She's four for four in 2025 and just having like one of the best seasons by a three year old Philly in North America this year despite the fact that she's running on the turf, which doesn't get, you know, kind of the same attention as races like the Alabama and the Kentucky Oaks on the dirt.
So I'm looking forward to those two. The Suburban is kind of interesting because Locked is in there when the Santa Anita Handicap Grade one.
It's coming up off a fourth place finish to Fierceness, last year's Travers winner in the Ali Sheba on Kentucky Derby weekend. Got a couple other interesting names. I mean Locked is going to be a pretty big favorite that as of Tuesday afternoon. The line isn't out yet, but he'll be, he'll be a very big favorite. But you got Honor Marie ran the Derby, the Belmont and Travers last year, you know, kind of finished out of the money in all of them. But that's a horse that people recognize.
And then another one, Antiquarian, who's fifth in the Belmont last year, coming off a second to to 2024 Kentucky Derby winner Mystic Dan in a race at Churchill Down. So there's a couple in there that will be interesting names, but Locked will be, you know, the, the primary fit, primary favorite and then the other one that kind of jumps out is the, the Belmont Derby, which is the other, only other grade one, the Belmont Derby. The Belmont Oaks, which are three year old turf races, the only two grade ones during the week. And the Belmont Derby drew two horses that ran in the Kentucky Derby including Final Gambit who was fourth in the Derby. And Flying Mohawk owned by co owned by our old friend Jason Worth was 18th in the Derby. And these horses. So these horses ran on the dirt in the Derby at a distance of ground and now they're coming back to the turf. So those two names kind of jumped out at me. Like what's the thinking there of like going back? They were kind of like turf or synthetic runners before they kind of got Derby fever and tried that and it didn't work out. So that's kind of what we're looking at.
Besides Belmont Oaks on Saturday, we also have the Kelso on the turf and the Sanford, which as I already mentioned is the two year old graded stakes on the dirt for two year olds.
[00:43:16] Speaker C: Well, part of the reason behind the New York Racing association moving the July 4th week from Aqueduct to Saratoga is to get attendance and handle bumps. Will fans show up and should this be considered a dry run for moving the July 4th racing to the spa permanently?
[00:43:32] Speaker B: My best guess as far as the fans showing up is that Friday will be the best day. I'm not expecting a lot of people on Thursday.
I think just because of the 4th of July weekend coinciding with it and 4th of July actually being on a Friday, I think people will kind of like show up on Friday. Plus it's by far the best day in terms of stakes appeal.
They'll show up on Friday and then just go find some fireworks somewhere afterwards in Saratoga Lake or wherever, whoever, wherever they're having them up there. And then I'm not expecting a lot on Saturday and Sunday as far as attendance wise.
They don't even have a stakes race on Sunday. I'm pretty sure it's going to be at Ghost Town on Sunday. But either way it's still will be better for Naira to run to, you know, what are considered smallish crowds in Saratoga than running at minuscule crowds at Aqueduct.
You know, you get to put Saratoga on display an extra time, you know, extra four days. I just think that people have a lot of traditional plans on Fourth of July weekend, and they'll be, you know, sticking to those instead of going to the track. In fact, when I was talking to Chad Brown this morning, he's from Mechanicville, he's got tons of family and friends still in this area, and he told me that, yeah, I don't think there's going to be a lot of people here because, you know, my people are telling me, hey, I'll see you on the 12th, meaning the first Saturday the summer meet. So, I mean, if his people aren't showing up, I'm not sure who is. There's degenerates and die hards out there that'll love it, and they'll just can't get enough of Saratoga. So it's not going to be like a disaster or anything. And again, like I already said, it's going to be way better than at Aqueduct as far as making it a permanent thing.
I mean, I got to believe they're going to have it there again next year. I haven't looked at the calendar. One of the reasons that made it easier for them to decide to bring it up here was that Labor Day, September 1, is the earliest that could possibly happen on the calendar. And then they. When they make the summer meet schedule, they work backwards from there to determine what opening day date will be, which is July 10, which is as early as it can be.
And because the Fourth of July fell the way it did, it didn't make sense. Well, it made sense to bring everybody up here a little early, because now then you only have three days off between Sunday, which is the last day of the Fourth of July festival, and Thursday, the 10th, which is the start of the summer meet. So it kind of, like, coalesced from a calendar standpoint. Again, without having looked at next year's calendar to see if it'll fit very well, I gotta think they're gonna use the same mentality of why. Why run it?
Aqueduct? Even if there's like five or six days between 4th of July and the start of the meet, when we can get better, you know, way better numbers up at Saratoga as far as it being permanent.
I mean, they will be looking at the numbers very closely this year. And if they bring it back again next year, because Belmont's not going to be ready to run, you know, fourth of July next year, they'll look at the numbers.
I don't think it's going to be a permanent thing only because, you know, I've said this many times, you know, naira got a $455 million loan from the state of New York to rebuild Belmont Park. You know, as the state going to get pissed at them if, you know, suddenly they're moving dates up here instead of using them at their brand new spanking beautiful facility that, you know, New York State went out of their way to make sure they could make it happen. So.
So I think there might be a little pressure from that direction to keep it down there. But, you know, and again, I don't think they're going to hit it out of the ballpark from a number standpoint anyway.
So I don't think it's gonna. I'll believe it when I see it. If it's a permanent thing. Plus they're tampering with tradition. There's a lot of people that do not want the 40 days of the Saratoga meet expanded in any way.
If it ever was. This would be a logical way to do it. But I'll tell you from I've only been through the first five days of 49, and if they make 44 permanent, you know, it's just going to kind of dilute the Saratoga meet that much more, which is gonna, you know, anger people youe know, the trade off is that if they, you know, if they make more money up here than they would down at Belmont, than it, you know, from bottom line stance standpoint, it makes sense. But again, I just think that they're putting so much money and effort and time into making Belmont park this beautiful, you know, palace of racing that to not use it for four, four extra days, you know, it's almost like a slap in the face to New York State a little bit. So from that standpoint, and I'm thinking it won't be a permanent thing, but it doesn't mean they're not thinking about it.
[00:48:33] Speaker C: Yeah, and of course we should mention that you had it basically predicted and it came true that the 2026 Belmont Stakes will be back up at Saratoga. So that wasn't a shock.
[00:48:45] Speaker A: Not at all.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: I wrote that in February.
They just announced it last month officially. That was, I mean, it was a no brainer. And again, it goes back to the fact that, you know, when they reopen that thing, they want it to be 100% what it's supposed to look like. And if they rent, for all practical purposes, they could run the Belmont Stakes at Belmont park next year because it'll be ready enough for the racing part of it at least to be okay. But if all the bells and whistles are not finalized in the stands and with the concessions and all, all the other stuff, that they don't want people's first impression of their beautiful new palace to be, you know, an incomplete one. So, so that makes sense. And so. Yeah, well, yeah, they made it official, but you could kind of sniff out the fact that they were going to be back here in 26 without much difficulty.
[00:49:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Before we started taping this segment, Mike, the Naira announced the Saratoga premium giveaway items. What stands out to you of those items?
[00:49:53] Speaker B: Oh, let me get this in front of me. Hang on a sec.
I got it up on my lap.
[00:49:58] Speaker C: Well, to me, I mean, the Hawaiian shirt. But unfortunately they're all offering just two sizes, medium and extra large. I like to wear double xl, so I'm not happy about that.
[00:50:07] Speaker B: Well, my point about the Hawaiian shirt is they sneakily mention in the middle of the description of it that it's actually a T shirt. It's not.
[00:50:15] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:50:15] Speaker B: Button up shirt, which of course, that's the cheap way to do it, I guess.
I, I believe it says, you know, when they say Hawaiian shirt, you picture like a short sleeve button up.
[00:50:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Jimmy Buffett. Jimmy Buffett.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Pineapples and toucans and stuff on it. Which was probably what it's gonna be. We don't have photos of these things. The only thing we have photo of so far is the sunglasses.
But yeah, right in the middle it says the T shirt will be available in two sizes. So it's basically another T shirt with, you know, some toucans on it or something.
Presumably there's the blanket. That's an old standby that people use for picnics or, you know, they don't need it to stay warm, that's for sure. A pennant. That's a new one by me.
Seems kind of old school. Tote bag. You know, I've already. I still have like probably six of those back in some closet somewhere from various years.
The quarter zip sweatshirt. I'll be interested to see what that looks like and, and you know, what kind of quality we're talking about because, you know, they're, they're giving the stuff away. So it's like, you know, like the flying shirt thing.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: I.
[00:51:23] Speaker B: Not a clothier, but sure. It's a lot more expensive to do a button up over a T shirt.
[00:51:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:30] Speaker B: What else they got here?
Well, they have a summer tour T shirt that sounds kind of cool. Which is like, like a concert tour. And it's got the steak schedule on the back and it's got some sort of emblem on the front that might be kind of fun.
And then the sunglasses and looks like that's it. So the sunglasses be the first one. And that's, that's the. During the fourth of July festival as a matter of fact. And they, you know, they, it says limited to the first 15,000. You know, they probably threw that bone out there to the first fans. Just that time's Friday, July 4th, by the way.
You know, they're probably doing everything they can to at least make that Friday a pretty big crowd, which is going to easily be by far the biggest of the four days. I, I like Sunday. It'll be interesting how to see how many people are rattling around in there.
[00:52:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, Mike, we begin another year of talking Saratoga racetrack. We'll do this again next week.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: I guess we will, won't we?
[00:52:27] Speaker A: We're here.
[00:52:28] Speaker B: It's a nerd. You know, I mentioned those two year old races. This is like pre kindergarten for them because usually they don't crank them up until a week later. And so it's pre kindergarten for everybody. They're called, you know, Naira calls it. They're characterizing it as a prelude to the summer meet in a lot of ways it really is. Especially since there's only a three day gap between the 4th of July and the, the summer meet.
So racing fans will see some things that are happening that'll, you know, kind of generate some momentum straight into the summer meet.
It will be up there.
[00:53:02] Speaker C: You can follow Mike on X at mikemcadam and of course on Facebook and our Daily Gazette Sports X page. That's at D Gazette Sports and looking forward to it, Mike, if it should be another fun season.
[00:53:16] Speaker B: Yep, here we go.
[00:53:17] Speaker C: All right. All right. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it.
[00:53:20] Speaker B: Thank you, Ken.
[00:53:20] Speaker C: All right, that's Mike McAd. And we're back to wrap up the podcast and that the latest winner in the deadly Gazettes auto racing contest. In just a moment.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: Explore the benefits of subscribing to the Daily Daily Gazette like our convenient E Edition app, personalized newsletters and unique reader rewards. When you join, start your membership today offers
[email protected].
hi, this is Colin Stevens of the 2014 National Championship Union College men's hockey team. You're listening to the Parting Shots podcast with Daily Gazette sports editor Ken Shot.
[00:54:10] Speaker C: Back to wrap up the podcast. The Week 19 winner in the Daily Gazettes auto racing contest was Jeffrey Thayer of Schenectady. With 35 points, Jeffrey wins a $50 gift card. Congratulations Jeffrey. The VIP winner was Dwayne Leach of All Seasons Equipment with five points. Must have been a bad week for us VIPs. I'll announce the auto racing contest winner's name and and that winner's name will appear in Saturday's Daily Gazette. To play, go to dailygazette.com and click on the auto racing contest banner.
Just because COVID 19 band aids are easing, that does not mean you should relax. Be vigilant. If you have not gotten vaccinated or received a booster shot, please do so. Do it for yourself, do it for your family and do it for your friends. And a friendly reminder, vaccines do not cause autism.
Don't forget to download the Daily Gazette app and sign up for our E Edition so you never miss a headline. Subscribe today at www.dailygazette.com. we have a lot of great specials going on. When credibility matters, trust the Daily Gazette on the latest edition of the Stan and Shen Show. Stan Houdy and Shenandoah Briere have Scotia's Freedom Parks Board President Kathy Gatta.
She stopped by with Stan and Shen to talk about this year's free concert series and some of the acts playing three times a week this summer.
They talked about the music available along the Mohawk at Freedom park, along with all the music in the air, in the Electric City and beyond. Subscribe to the Stan and Shen show on all your podcast listening platforms.
That wraps up another edition of the Parting Shots Podcast.
I want to thank Dave Smith and Mike McAdam for coming on the show.
If you have questions or comments about the podcast, email them to me at shot. That's s c h o t
[email protected] follow me on X Threads and bluesky at Slap Shots.
The views expressed on the Parting Shots podcast are not necessarily those of the Daily Gazette Company. The Parting Ship Shots podcast is a production of the Daily Gazette company. I'm Daily Gazette Sports Editor Ken Schott. Thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time from the Pawning Shots Podcast studio in Schenectady, New York. Good day, good sports and have a great July 4th weekend.
[00:56:45] Speaker A: You sa.
